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Comment: Swiftner's Scifi Xforms
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Swiftner's Scifi Xforms episode Unknown
Gender
Here is a video from the new Xformation site I'm wotrking on.
From: Mr. Unregistered* , 241 months, post #1
I don't suppose you could put it in something besides Windows Media, for those thousands of us who don't have PCs?

From: Lady Sekhmet* , 241 months, post #2
Perhaps you are unaware that the Windows Media player is available for the Mac:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherproducts/otherproducts.aspx?pid=windowsmedia

Now the thousands of Mac users can join the millions of PC users :)

From: Terran* , 241 months, post #3
but....not saying that I have it, do they put it in for LINUX?

From: Stan* , 241 months, post #4
Perhaps you are unaware that the Windows Media player is available for the Mac:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherproducts/otherproducts.aspx?pid=windowsmedia

Now the thousands of Mac users can join the millions of PC users :)

Mac users are aware of this and do use it when nescessary, but frankly, who wants to taint a perfectly good computer with a piece of buggy virus ridden bloatware that is a micorshaft product?

From: Chris* , 241 months, post #5
Am I missing something, or can anyone else not get the clip to play? WinXP

From: Dave* , 241 months, post #6
It won't play for meweither, I run win XP

From: Cobe* , 241 months, post #7
I've got Windows 2000 and it plays fine.

From: Swiftner* , 241 months, post #8
The clip uses windows media 9, if you get sound but no video you do not have the newest codec. For those with windows, the codec to play it can be had by just doing windows updates or going to

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/9series/player.aspx

for mac users

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/software/Macintosh/osx/default.aspx

Due to space and network speed I will be using wmv 9 and real codec 10 (which uses real player which can be downloaded for any system including Linux, etc. and at the moment has best quality vs size) for my videos. I'm only going to use the newest codecs since they have best compresion ie smallest size and highest quality. Also if you don't have your browser set to play vids on left click, right click the link and choose save target as to download. My main page will have more info but will not be up till next weekend due to time constraints. Hope this info helps.

Swifter


From: im sorry* , 241 months, post #9
mine wont work

From: femur* , 241 months, post #10
good luck with your site. as someone who uses an older Mac (which runs OS9, which only has Windows Media Player 7 available for it), i won't be able to see a thing, but i'll check out your site after i get a new computer (hopefully later this year).


From: JM* , 241 months, post #11
Got the new codec, still won't work

From: Lady Sekhmet* , 241 months, post #12
Ok, just for the record - I run several Linux (Fedora Core 2) boxes here, I also have a Mac running panther that I'm very fond of. But the bulk of my systems are running the "buggy virus ridden bloatware" Microsoft products which frankly havent been buggy or virus ridden since Windows XP Pro. The only people with slow, virus ridden systems are the ones who don't take two seconds to turn on their firewall and don't have the good sense to install antivirus software and anti adware packages.

That being said, my Mac is running lots of software that didn't come directly from Apple and it seems to be quite happy with it. I can't say I like having WM9 on my Mac, but I do, and it works. It ONLY plays windows media files.

The alternative is for everyone to encode their video in Quicktime, which is equally annoying to install on Windows machines. Since there are more windows boxes than Macs it stands to reason that Windows Media is the format of choice. Its the reason I host all of the clips I've posted here in that format. Some people can't see them, but most can.

You can't please everyone... People running DOS, Linux, or Macs prior to OS X are just out of luck. Frankly I can't imagine why anyone would run OS9 when OS X offers OS9 emulation. The Linux thing bugs me... but some enterprising young buck will find a solution.

From: anonymous* , 241 months, post #13
wot the hell yall talkin about??????????????????

From: anonymous* , 241 months, post #14
IT skips all the time and I got Windows series 9

From: uri* , 241 months, post #15
>You can't please everyone... People running DOS, Linux, or Macs prior to OS X are just out
> of luck. Frankly I can't imagine why anyone would run OS9 when OS X offers OS9
>emulation.

because some of us are running "legacy" Macs onto which OS X cannot be installed? because here are some applications which will not run in Classic Mode?

do you really find that wmv3 gives better quality/byte than Divx or mpegX encoding?

installing WMP on a Mac is a weirdly time consuming procedure -- all kinds of stuff gets installed that may, or may not, have anything to do with playing .wmv files.

neither of these will help OS 9 users, but:

it doesn't yet support wmv3 (MediaPlayer 9) but VLC (formerly known as videolan client) -- free download from http://www.videolan.org -- will play pretty much anything -- including wmv1 and wmv2 files.

mplayer for linux is supposed to support wmv1, wmv2, and wmv3 playback. don't know if this support exists in the OS X version. the documentation at sourceforge is no help, but you could download mplayer (again, its free) and give it a try.

http://mplayerosx.sourceforge.net/







From: Lady Sekhmet* , 241 months, post #16
>Do you really find that wmv3 gives better quality/byte than Divx or mpegX encoding?

You bet! Lets remember that most clips linked here have a target audience of computer playback. They aren't interested in getting a 720x480 30fps rendering, they just want a clean viewable clip in the shortest download time. I've found that WM9 encoded video absolutely beats mpeg4 codecs at this. Very small file size, and excellent video quality. And lets remember, the vast majority of people don't even know what Divx and Xvid are, let alone VLC. You can't ask the average computer user to identify, download, and install exotic codecs when a simpler path is available.

Throw in the fact that WM9 has a HUGE installed base doesn't hurt either. Now that mplayer on Linux supports it, the only platform not able to play WM9 are those running Mac OS9 and earlier which is frankly a very tiny group. You may as well ask folks to support the Amiga.

>>installing WMP on a Mac is a weirdly time consuming procedure -- all kinds of stuff gets installed that may, or may not, have anything to do with playing .wmv files.

My experience installing WM9 on Panther was quite the opposite. It was a very quick and clean install. It didn't try to hijack any playback types other than AVI and WM. Are you sure you're installing the latest version directly from Microsofts website?

Anywho, while I sympathize with your position, I think its unreasonable to get angry over a contributors decision on a codec. I think WM9 yeilds the best quality to the largest group of people. There are other codecs to be sure, but why should we be forced to encode to the lowest possible denominator just so the last 1% of viewers is included?


From: Lady Sekhmet* , 241 months, post #17
And fwiw, my short list of "impossible to view without Windows Media 9" videos can be found here:

http://members.aol.com/sekhmetpriestess/vids.htm

:)

From: uri* , 241 months, post #18
"And lets remember, the vast majority of people don't even know what Divx and Xvid are, let alone VLC. You can't ask the average computer user to identify, download, and install exotic codecs when a simpler path is available."

downloading and installing VLC is no more complicated than installing WMP.

as for divx being "exotic"? i don't know much about installing codecs on Windows machines, but on a Mac it involves double-clicking on the installer, then (sometimes) answering some questions about licensing.

http://www.divx.com/divx/

"My experience installing WM9 on Panther was quite the opposite. It was a very quick and clean install. It didn't try to hijack any playback types other than AVI and WM. Are you sure you're installing the latest version directly from Microsofts website?"

yes, from the M$ site. on my 800DP, running 10.3.4, the install took several minutes, and i got several more minutes of the spinning beachball before it would run.

you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but i am not impressed with the quality of wmv3 files. furthermore, running WMP9 on OS X, i get skips and blocky video or audio-only about half the time.

"I think its unreasonable to get angry over a contributors decision on a codec. I think WM9 yeilds the best quality to the largest group of people. There are other codecs to be sure, but why should we be forced to encode to the lowest possible denominator just so the last 1% of viewers is included?"

well, i am not angry, but your decision proceeds from the assumption that the number of OS 9 users (or M$-resistant OS X users) in the TG/TF community is a reflection of the number of such users in the general population. i would submit, that based on the available data (this thread), it is either 7% or 13% -- depending on whether Mr. Unregistered was a mac user who was able to follow your advice. additionally, you have 4 (presumably) unique responses (~27%) from Windows users indicating that WMP9 does not work for them.

furthermore, if i cared enough to argue, i would suggest that "encod[ing for the lowest [common denominator" would be an appropriate strategy for a vanity site, serving a small community. the web is all about narrowcasting, so even if your assumptions about the prevalence of WMP9 capable machines in the TG/TF community are accurate, the indisputable fact is that "last 1%" of viewers" is still part of your audience. an audience which you share with sites like the (moribund) gynomorph.com, and any number of mIRC and bittorent swappers -- where divx encoded .avi files have a certain currency.

but, if you want to lead the revolution for the proprietary M$ wmv3 codec, for which there is currently only one working player (reading the mplayer forums, it appears that the implementation for Linux still has audio-only issues with wmv3) ... well, more power to you. ^-^

the smiley is inserted to indicate that i am not trying to piss you off.




From: anonymous* , 241 months, post #19
arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr why did you spend your time doing this

From: Lady Sekhmet* , 241 months, post #20
Well, here's something else to consider - lets say I encode in Divx. The user gets to my site, can't view the video. Right away they are inclined to simply walk away. But lets say they decide they really want to see the video. Naturally, I'd put a link on my site to point the way to the Divx site.

Now, the poor guy who just wants to see a video clip is faced with the choice of paying cash for the Divx codec or getting strapped with spyware and adware thats attached to the free version. Thats the LAST thing I want to do to visitors. There's too much of that going around as it is.

So whats the next choice? RealVideo? Thats even worse when it comes to spyware and adware. So how about VideoLan? First off, VLC is still in beta, and I shy against recommending beta software to end users. Second, VLC is essentially a player, you still have to install the codecs for the stream you want to support. That takes us back to the Divx spyware issue.

In my opinion, there are only two "safe" choices for streaming video today. Quicktime 6.5, and Windows Media 9. For those willing to do so, encoding video clips in BOTH formats will solve this whole problem. But thats also double the work.

For someone like myself who isn't dedicated to making a great site (like Paul has here), rendering in both formats is just a nussance. But I'll tell ya what - if I get as many as say 8 requests for clips to be in both formats, then I'll see what I can do about offering them that way. Let the common folks speak ! :) (a dollar says they aren't even reading this thread)


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