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Question: Ice Angel
Ice Angel
Gender
Made for TV Movie. Heaven can wait type plot. Macho hockey star killed before his time accidently by an angel is sent back in the beautiful body of America's best female Figure skater to have a chance of winning a gold medal. He is not very happy about being a girl! But he learns to skate like the ...more
From: anonymous* , 254 months, post #1
hey is there any pics of the movie on the web?


From: Glammazon* , 254 months, post #2
As I mentioned in my James Bond story TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE, the brain of a male person would slowly feminize after it had been placed in a female body - that is what I believe. Yes, it is conceivable that a man could adapt to being in a woman's role - the best example of this is your average japanese theatre player. There is a group of these men - and believe me, they are all men - who have trained for years to play the roles of females on the stage. In fact, some of them have grown so obessed with playing the female role that they wear female clothes in public. Also, there is the case of the Chevalier de Beaumont, a man who was forced to dress up in female clothes for the rest of his life at the age of 49 and did so until his death at the age of 82 (he was of the somewhat radical belief that gender need not be dependant on the physical body).

From: STARMAN* , 254 months, post #3
I search a copy of this movie, "ICE ANGEL"
Any format, DVD, VHS, original or a HOME COPY.
EMAIL ME TO josel41@prtc.net

From: sara* , 253 months, post #4
http://home.planet.nl/~rutte516/Photos/Movies/IceAngel.htm

From: he who shall not be named* , 253 months, post #5
in america this movie was played on fox family channel so you may not find it on DVD and may have to use the irc to get a copy...i think i watched it once and thought it was trite and a waste of time...my sister thought the same thine....but it was the escape factor that made us watch it together when it was on over winter break... because it let us forget that there was a level 3 snow emergency outside and that teh cars were burried under 5 feet of snow...

From: guest (TLove) , 226 months, post #6
http://girltowoman.50megs.com/Ice_Angel.htm

From: guest (TL) , 226 months, post #7
Pretty good flick, but I would rather have woken up as the co-star, Tara Lipinski.

http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/javiermoreno/tara19.html


From: guest (Marvin) , 226 months, post #8
Sure it's possible for a male mind to feminize if somehow placed within a female body and brain. The arangement of how a female brain works compared to a males would alter the thought processes. The hormones would effect the emotional state and to a degree some functions. Then the body would alter how the person would have to simply move in order to acomodate their different proportions and anatomy.

This would not make that person a woman however but physically at least, female. I mean woman in the sense that they would behave and be able to relate to others as a woman rather than from a man's mental perspective. They would be socially being taken for and treated as a woman and being expected to act and behave like one. But with no experience as one they would be lost aside from some stereotypical behaviors.

The key would be intent. If the person being put in there was willing and wanted to be female then that would make the transition easier and even preferable. If they where unwilling then you would have a lot of mental and emotional and physical conflicts not to mention physcological.

If the scenario was to have a male brain in a female body then it would be even harder. The male brain would be effected by the hormones and feminize to a degree and the body and social conditons would still apply. But the male brain would still retain a lot of male functionality and would again depend on the desire of the subject to the transfer.

Even with a female body and hormones and sexual organs you can't make a straight male in that body suddenly a straight woman. The subject would still probably find the thought of sex with a male revolting as much as they would have if they where still male. Probably more so given the posistion they would now have to be in.

Again, it would be all up to the subjects willingness to the change. It's not to say that over time the male in a female body may not adopt more of a female lifestyle. They certainly would have to in most respects at least physically. I don't think this would be sexual but I'm sure the subject would at some point experiment at least on their own.

This is an interesting concept (aside from being impossible). I think the few things I read all have the person kind of just adapting and changing to match their bodies and that is wrong. It may happen over time but you can't just erase a lifetime of knowledge and conditioning by changing sex.

I never saw this movie and like most things on Fox it's probably worth avoiding. But given the person's frustration at being female and discomfort it's probably more on the mark.

From: cj , 226 months, post #9
That has got to be one of the most well-articulated theories I've read. Very easy to understand. Thanks, Marvin!

From: guest (Ryan h) , 226 months, post #10

the only thing i didn't like about it was that at the end, all his memories are erased so that he doesnt know that he was a man in a woman's body and just thinks that he was that woman all along,

From: cj , 226 months, post #11
yeah... that was a cop-out.

From: guest (Toonoose) , 226 months, post #12
The human brain is hard-wired in the womb by hormones. A male brain placed in a female body would remain male with a male-oriented sense of self. Ditto for a female brain in a male body. Otherwise, how do you explain actual pre-hormone therapy/pre-operative transgendered people who can spend their entire lives believing themselves to be of "the wrong sex" even though their brains are being soaked in the testosterone or estrogen of their physical bodies? Their brains were permanently sexually oriented by the "wrong" hormones prior to birth. Little boys who are "switched" sexually as babies due to medical conditions such as absent penises (or accidentally destroyed penises during circumcision, etc.) and administered estrogen throughout their developing lives still view themselves as fundamentally male and almost universally come to psychologically screwed up ends unless they receive "reversal" sex changes. Cross gendered brain transplants would result in minds at odds with bodies. Sorry, but that's the most-widely recognized and accepted medical opinion available at this time.

From: guest (Suzanne de Nimes) , 226 months, post #13
Given the fact that we're talking about manifestly impossible plot devices, I'm a little amused by the utter certainty of these analyses. In this case, we're not talking about a brain transplant, but something like a "soul" or consciousness transplant. If such a thing were possible, it would be quite different.

Here, for instance, the physical stuff inside that skater's brain is unchanged, so it would be a "female brain," with all the sex-related differences science is only now beginning to understand. So a story like this is more about a female brain *and* body that suddenly have a male "pilot" - or a consciousness that remembers being male.

IMO, it's a pretty interesting avenue to explore, as you wouldn't just be experiencing unfamiliar hormonal surges, physical sensations and the like, but would actually *think* differently. Potentially pretty interesting if not done in the stereotypical way (e.g., "Suddenly I'm really interested in shoes!")

From: guest (Marvin) , 226 months, post #14
Toonoose is right about the "hardwiring" of the brain in a fetus. Some recent studies have shown that homosexuals pocess traits in that hardwiring of both sexes. Now it's not written in stone as far as I seen but I have seen it mentioned a few times in articles about sexual differences in the brain.

The gist of what i was saying was that giiven the scenario of having a male brain in a female body would reslult in chaos for that individual. The subject must be willing to except that gender and all that comes with it in order for them to function with some normalcy. There would be no experience or knowlege for the individual to base anything on except cirmcumstancial ones. That is, they may hang and socialize with women and feel comfortable with them and even act to a degree the same but they still are not female. Without having actually lived in a female body and experienced growing up and the physical and social skills of a female they are merely acting a role.

The same would be true with a "mind transfer" while improbable too it would facilitate a better intergration of a female mindset on the subject. That is they would be forced to think and process their thoughts through a female brain and their thought process would be altered to a more female model. It still does not adress the issue of experience however.

In the case of this movie, the skater would display more feminine emotional states and their thinking would be effected. However this is still a male in thought and would find a female body all wrong.

The simple act of walking in a body different from your own would be constantly telling your mind it's "wrong". Add to the differences in a female body from height to hips and breasts the subject would need time to redajust their mind to their anatomy. Coordination and motor skills would all be off. The mind would be telling them their reach is This and the physical reach is actually This. A period of reorientation would be needed for the person to acclimate to the basic skills. This doesn't mean they would have to learn everything all over but they would need time to adjust.

This does not even relate to the differences in sexual organs both primary and secondary. Then their is the social perceptions of a straight man being viewed by what he percieves still as his fellow men as a potential sexual object. It would be offensive to his perceptions to have men now looking at him and worse since he could not hide the more obvious differences. Coupled with his knowledge of how a man thinks when looking at a girl would make him extremely agitated and nervous/humiliated.

Simply put, the guy would be a basket case. It's not to say that person could not adjust to a degree but doubtful they could ever adopt that lifestyle well enough and be comfortable with it.

Still, if given the idea that the male mind in this case was put into a female body with a fully functional female brain, hormonal level and sexual orientation, the subject would be in conflict with what their mind tells them they should be thinking and feeling and wanting and what their body is actually experiencing. It's a fictional story and the plot would not work if reality actually came into it. Even if possible the subject would be in severe conflict and would take years to adjust.

These are my thoughts on the matter not facts of course. I base it on deduction and information I have read. Any who think that a person can change sex (by whatever methods) and become that sex without some difficulties is mistaken. Im sure we all agree on that much.



From: guest (Andrew) , 226 months, post #15
...and of course there's the fact that, while the influence of any prenatal hormonal screwup is still not fully understood, the "male" or "female" nature of a brain is as basic, inherent, structural and unchanging as race, height, or eye color.
Regardless of to what hormonal immersion a brain is subjected, every single cell in the brain is either male or female from the moment its assembly begins at fertilization.
XX and you get a female brain, XY and you get a male one. Developmental malfunctions, accidental or deliberate mutilation, hormonal misfires notwithstanding, the sex of the brain is what it is, regardless of what artificial changes are made to the body... or the wardrobe.
At least that's the way it works in the real world of biology, where brain transplants may someday conceivably be possible.
Of course in the fantasy realm of the supernatural, magical transformations, reincarnations, technological, or spiritually executed "body swaps..." well... anything goes and the possibilities are limited only by the imagination of the author.


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