, 1 months, post #1 |
create a character, create a story|
change their gender (against their will; they do not want to be
alter their mind so they like the new gender and so they desire
their former gender now (which they never did before)
they have sex
because they would not have had sex with their former gender...
have they now been raped?
they enjoyed the act, but they would not have performed the act
without the mental alteration. Was it rape?
, 1 months, post #2 |
(This reminds me of the arguments that used to break out about the
various charm enchantment spells in D&D.)|
If their mind had to be altered for them to go along with the act,
it's rape, same as getting someone very drunk or high to lower
their inhibitions. Altering their mind and body without consent
would also count as felony assault.
That being said, people who would never want to be actually raped
in real life can have rape/non-consent fantasies, even violent
ones, and/or other acts many would consider degrading. And some of
these people will act these fantasies out in real life with
consenting partners, using pre-established boundaries and safewords
to ensure the fantasy remains just that. Having the fantasy acts
occur to a fictional character -- even without that character's
consent -- is often another level of distance that allows the
author/reader to safely explore those fantasies. It isn't real. And
as long as it stays fictional and people in real life don't get
hurt (including harm from where the fantasies start disrupting real
life or causing addiction), then IMO fantasize about whatever you
/just my two copper pieces
, 30 days, post #3 |
doesn't that make these stories where straight men are forcefully
changed into woman and made to want to have sex - doesn't that make
those stories rape fetish?|
you mentioned D&D-
- A wizard uses Charm Person on his Fighter buddy, then "talks" him
into failing the Fortitude save on the Polymorph spell. The wizard
changes this guy into a woman, then "talks" this former guy into
by morning the Fighter is free of the Charm Person, so he knows
what happened, and might have enjoyed the evening... while he was
It's rape? Right?
, 29 days, post #4 |
, 28 days, post #5 |
> doesn't that make these stories where straight men are
forcefully changed into woman and|
> made to want to have sex - doesn't that make those stories
I am just one person, but from the anecdotal evidence I've seen,
most of them are not what I'd consider "rape fetish" stories. The
focus in TG stories is almost always on the person being TGed and
their experience(s), not the violator/rapist or the act of
violation/rape itself. In TG stories, it's a literary device to
enable the TG part. It's often an element or difficulty for the
character to grapple with, an obstacle to overcome, even a catalyst
to spur emotional/physiological development and growth. In the
/blackmailed/etc. without the character's consent allows the
readers (and often the writer) to safely distance themselves from
the responsibility and guilt for deriving some fulfillment and/or
pleasure at vicariously experiencing the positive elements of the
character's experiences. It was "done to them", so the character
(and thus the readers) are absolved of the guilt and self-anger for
not adhering to the real world's rigid rules for masculinity and
Fiction that fetishes the rape/violation act or rapist/violator
itself has a completely different focus when you read it. I have
read stories labeled as TG fiction where the presentation was
focused on that instead of it as a means to "get to the TG part"
and it was an immediate immersion breaker, often so distasteful I
quit on the story (and even the author entirely).
No one I've ever met or talked to would want to be raped or
mind-controlled/altered or possessed, etc, in real life. But nearly
all of the TG readers I've interacted with would like to experience
in real life the sensations and social interactions of presenting &
socializing as another gender, having intimate and emotional
relationships in that gender, experiencing childbirth as a women,
or bonding with male peers as men, etc. And through fictional
stories, captions, and pictures with a non-consent plot element,
they can safely imagine and explore what that's like -- even if
only for a brief time -- without dealing with uncomfortable guilt,
imposed social strictures, unaccepting religious upbringing, or
aspects of their inner authentic selves that are too painful to
I mean, many of the fictional movies I enjoy involve things like
theft, lying, tricking innocents, violence, killings/murders,
property damage, horror, supernatural evil, etc. They're just
elements to move the story along and create interesting character
interactions. I wouldn't like that stuff happening to people in
, 28 days, post #6 |
you take a straight guy, change him into a woman then force a
mental change onto him
that sounds a lot like altering him on a level that he might not
want on a physical and mental way
if this sort of thing were to hit the courts, where would it go?
what would a DA say about this?
From: guest (Paparoti)
, 28 days, post #7 |
Most of the stories do not have the mind of the main character
altered though. They end up like their their new gender solely on
their own free will...|
, 28 days, post #8 |
so many stories that I see takes a straight guy, change him, then
he's either jumping dick right away or (and this is what I am
referring to) he is altered mentally to be a woman|
fwiw - you aren't straight if you are turned into a woman and start
jumping dick immediately, you are not straight
From: guest (Paparoti)
, 28 days, post #9 |
The altering mentally stories are really a tiny part of TG genre.
Why are losing sleep over this insignificant part of TG landscape?|
, 27 days, post #10 |
not losing an ounce of sleep|
I just wanted to ask if you all thought mental alteration of
someone to have them have sex was like rape?
seems to me that it would be
and any story that has a straight guy change into a woman then he
has sex, is either not straight or he was mentally altered
, 26 days, post #11 |
Again, the mental alteration gets back to consent. If Bob alters
Ted's mind without Ted's consent, that's assault. If Bob then has
sex with the now mind-altered Ted, and that's something original
Ted wouldn't have done, then that's rape. But it's all fiction, so
no one really got hurt, no real crime occurred.|
If Ted consents and oks the changes, then no, it's probably not
rape. Ted might realize he's curious about women's bodies, and so
to have Bob change him physically into a woman. Ted might be
curious about how women think, and so Ted consents
to have Bob change him mentally into a woman. If female Ted with
her new mindset agrees to have sex with Bob, it very likely isn't
rape. Ted just has a woman's version of his own brain and own
personality, just with female hormones, newly rearranged nerve
endings, and nifty new equipment. Bob isn't blackmailing Ted or
exerting some leverage ("You have to sleep with me to turn back,
What if maleTed wants to have sex as a woman, but he knows he just
can't do it with even a feminine version of his brain/personality?
Or he might be able to have sex, but he knows the guilt will eat
him up? He could still consent to have his mind/personality changed
into a not-quite-Ted the Woman or a not-at-all-Ted the Woman. He
could consent to have his mind changed after the fact to forget it,
or to erase his hangup. Ted still has all the control and he made
the decisions with his unaltered mind, so still not rape.
What if not-quite-Ted the Woman or not-at-all-Ted the Woman agrees
to make further mental changes to herself? What if this version of
Ted agrees to make changes to maleTed's mind? What if this new
version of Ted decides she's more real or better than originalTed?
What if this Ted decides she doesn't want to change back and she's
making that decision, not originalTed? Which Ted is now the "real"
one who can consent to changes? Now we're getting into all kinds of
potential conflicts and moral grey areas... the kind of stuff that
can make interesting and engaging fiction. Which, again, is still fiction
; no one has gotten hurt, because it's still not real.
> and any story that has a straight guy change into a woman then
he has sex, is
> either not straight or he was mentally altered
I'm not sure anyone could be 100% rigidly,
there-will-never-be-any-exceptions, heterosexual. Likewise, I'm not
sure anyone could be 100% gay or lesbian. I think most gay and
straight people sit somewhere on the spectrum, but it takes
something significant to make them reassess their orientation
("Hey, I never thought about it before, but I haven't gotten laid
in a while, and Bob has been working out, and damn he's hot.").
I've heard many real life accounts of trans people that have gotten
more comfortable with their transitioning body and that're now on
hormone replacement who discover that their orientation has changed
a little bit, a whole lot, or maybe just in how they see a specific
friend or acquaintance in a new (sexier) light.
I think that it's too limiting to expect people to always be
attracted to the same types of people. And if they were always
straight until they figure out that for whatever reason they now
aren't straight, that doesn't mean they weren't authentically
straight before, that they were somehow lying or in denial.
People are imperfect, messy creatures. Most people change as they
grow both in small ways and sometimes big ways. People shouldn't be
so concerned about rigid boxes for gender or sexuality. They should
be honest with themselves about who they are without guilt or
shame, and just try to be and become the best version of who they
can be. If they decide one day that being honest means they're now
more comfortable presenting as a new gender or as somewhere between
the the two gender poles, that's perfectly fine. If they decide one
day that they're now attracted to adults of a different gender,
that's still fine.
, 23 days, post #12 |
just an example - the last page the SO tells her former man (who
did this change to himself) that he's gonna like guys now
this kind of mental alteration is kind of the thing I am talking
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