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From: guest , 32 months, post #141
Fed Up, are you also bothered by the use of the term heterosexual/straight?

From: guest (Fed Up) , 32 months, post #142
"It's not about making yourself feel better, but having a convenient way to express yourself. I don't think anyone here, including yourself, would want to have to say "someone born with the genitals that align with their gender""

Those would be women and men, that is how it is expressed

From: guest (Fed Up) , 32 months, post #143
Fed Up, are you also bothered by the use of the term heterosexual/straight?

You tell me why the term heterosexual or straight in needed. I use neither one to describe a person. But then I do not buy into SJW shit.

From: guest (Fed Up) , 32 months, post #144
Cis, heterosexual, etc. serves one purpose, an attempt to normalize the abnormal.

If you are trans, you are out of the normal. Does not mean you are bad, is just the way it is.

From: guest (Also Interested) , 32 months, post #145
lol so straight is SJW? and yet here you are the white knight of straight cismalehood. and yet youve literally started a thread to fight for your cause. what a SJW you are.

And you just said it, does not mean you are bad, so its about using language to not imply its bad or less than. But you dont actually care. stop pretending you do. you just came here to tell other ppl what they can and cant say. end of story.

From: Mr. Ram , 32 months, post #146
What does SJW mean?

From: guest , 32 months, post #147
Fed Up, are you also bothered by the term "room temperature"

From: guest (Fed Up) , 32 months, post #148
To Also Interested,

SJW's did not start last year....Straight was started as slang by homosexuals in the 60's to describe one not of their tribe. Heterosexual too gained use during that time period.

Yes being transgendered does not make you a bad person, but it does put you outside the norm.

SJW - Social Justice Warrior

From: guest (Fed Up) , 32 months, post #149
guest, Are you familiar with the term obtuse

From: guest , 32 months, post #150
I think you are epitomising that term... thanks for the example.

From: guest (guessed) , 32 months, post #151
@ guest (fed up) #148 SJW's did not start last year....Straight was started as slang by homosexuals in the 60's to describe one not of their tribe. Heterosexual too gained use during that time period.

Well, that's just wrong. "Straight" meaning "not homosexual" goes back to the 40s or earlier. It had the general meaning of not deviant (whatever the deviation from the norm), not intoxicated (habitually or otherwise), not a criminal, etc.

"Going/getting straight" existed an idiom long before the Stonewall and Compton Cafeteria riots.

Meanwhile, the term "SJW" as a pejorative for people who argued -- badly, insincerely, or with inappropriate/unhelpful shrillness -- against social injustice, exclusion, or oppressive politics seems to date to 2009

FWIW "outside the norm" is a pretty interesting phrase. A social norm is an informal proscriptive. It is not a law or a religious taboo. It describes a behavior or attitude that will not draw negative comment, ostracism, or other social sanctions within a given community. Being trans is certainly out of the norm in many communities, but those communities appear to be shrinking in number and in overall membership lately.

That's not to say that trans people don't still routinely get murdered for being trans -- pretty much everywhere. Its just that now that there are some well-off and semi-famous trans people in front of American media consumers, so it is getting harder for cisfolk to other all trans people.

From: JosieChung , 32 months, post #152
For anyone interested in the science of sex, this is a pretty good read:

New Statesman: "Sex isn’t chromosomes: the story of a century of misconceptions about X & Y"

From: guest (BarackObrahma) , 32 months, post #153
I think we should cultivate peace.

If some people doesn't wanna be called by some name, just don't call them it. Try to use the name they want be called upon.

So, from now on, I hope you all call me BATMAN, THE FUCKING LORD OF THE NIGHTS .

Ok? Got it?

From: guest , 32 months, post #154
Um... no. Not if what people who are satisfied with their birth genitals want to be called is "women" or "men" and they say that that excludes people who were not. Again, that is inherently exclusionary and "transphobic"

From: guest (KJ) , 32 months, post #155
If you lived 50 years as a white male, but that you always felt you were black, could you darken your skin, and demand to be considered an equal member of that race?

Then get angry at those for not accepting you as a black, one who is equal to a black man or woman since birth?

From: guest (BarackObrahma) , 32 months, post #156
Michael Jackson did something along this line, KJ

From: Mr. Ram , 32 months, post #157
So did Rachel Dolezal, A white woman who claimed to be black, she was even president of the NAACP in Spokane Washington, until people found out that she was really white.

From: guest (guessed) , 32 months, post #158
quote KY #155 If you lived 50 years as a white male, but that you always felt you were black, could you darken your skin, and demand to be considered an equal member of that race?

Pretty far afield now, I think.

The OP objected to the use of "cisman" and "ciswoman" as identifiers for persons who identify with the gender assigned at birth.

An apt comparison here would be the way that black is appended to the title of persons of color.

It happens less often now, and it usually means something different than it did, but there was a time that calling someone a "back doctor" or "black lawyer" or "black tennis player" went without comment because "doctor" and "lawyer" mapped to "white" -- so saying "white lawyer" seemed redundant.

likewise "woman doctor" or (too often) "lady doctor".

If you are part of the privileged class being asked to identify as cis, or identify as straight, or identify as white is annoying -- especially to those who feel that they have not benefited (enough) from the privilege that comes with those categories.

We all have some resentment, we have all felt the sting of some injustice. It is very hard put yourself in the place of the other, to recognize that giving some share or dignity and respect to someone not like yourself does not diminish the stock of dignity available to you.

It takes an deliberate act of will, and no little exercise of imagination, to accept that you are not letting someone "jump the line" or ceding "special rights" when you treat another human being as a human being.

Some people simply cannot, or will not, do this. This kind of bigotry is tolerable, until it is weaponized by those who would use it to divide and disenfranchise -- which is to say, it is never tolerable.

From: guest , 32 months, post #159
Excellent article, thanks, JosieChung.

I especially liked (in relation to this discussion) "Ah, but there’s a weasel word there: 'normal'" :-D

As for the black/white comments above.... what is the legal definition of "black". As far as I know it's ancestry. The legal definition of "man" and "woman", in most states, includes "transmen" and "transwomen." Apples and oranges, people... apples and oranges.

From: guest (BarackObrahma) , 32 months, post #160
Shania Twain always said that... Man, I feel like a woman.

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