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PC and the Transmafia
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From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #181
In this post, I have done nothing that breaks the rules here, but, you just did.

You used my name, and an ISP check will show that.

From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #182
"The conclusion of many organizations is that you should not use either “cisgender” or “cis” in any sort of public narrative.

Even inside the LGBT community the words have a very negative connotation. When someone is referred to as a “cisgender lesbian” or “cis gay man” by a transgender person, it is often in a negative way. The addition of “cis” or “cisgender” is used to imply a certain level of contempt and a desire that they leave discussions on transgender issues. It also implies that they don’t, can’t, or won’t ever understand transgender issues."

From: guest (bob2006) , 31 months, post #183
Fed up and the other gust iare right and the fact that people can't even argue the points they've made is clue enough that the arguments have struck a cord. Gender exists, biologically and socially- because gender is deeply rooted in all human cultures. Pretending otherwise is very similar to denying the moon landing or the existence of gravity.

From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #184

I feel for many transgendered people, but my feelings do not erase fact. My fear is the pc / trans-mafia pushing will do more harm in the long run, than any good.

From: JosieChung , 31 months, post #185
Can Paul or the mods please just lock this thread finally? It has long stopped serving any purpose other than grar-mining and butthurt whining. There are plenty of other platforms and messageboards for it, so there's no need to keep reopening the same wounds in the community here.

From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #186
And again, what rule have I broken here in this discussion to have it locked or have me banned (which you did not take for, but others have)?

You were welcome to avoid it, but I and others seem to think it is a worthwhile discussion to have. You are not required to join in or like it.

From: JosieChung , 31 months, post #187
All of the differing viewpoints were aired pages ago, and whatever relevancy the topic originally had to transformation has devolved into selectively ignoring and cherry picking at the actual science while distracting with straw-manning, ad homs, and other tactics. There isn't any actual worthwhile discussion happening in this thread, and hasn't been for a while. The thread now exists solely for axe-grinding, which is totally offtopic and deliberately divisive.

Fed Up, you can think whatever you want and post it all over the Internet in innumerable places, many of which you will find receptive to your PoV. But this site does not owe you a platform for your offtopic views, your political grievances, and your unwarranted attacks... and none of the rest of us here are required to listen to it or your deliberately empty stoking at the embers to keep it going. Keeping this thread open is a blight on the mostly-respectful community here, and likely depressing active participation from regulars and lurkers alike.

From: guest , 31 months, post #188
It was never really on topic. This thread never had anything to do with transformation, and it never really had much to do with the TG transformation fetish community, which has relatively little crossover with the transgender community. This thread was started to complain about the language habits of a group of people who, by and large, never visit this site, in response to an incident that occurred in a completely different website. It takes an enormous leap of logic to say that that's on topic.

That said, even if this thread had once been on topic, JosieChung is right. This discussion serves no purpose at this point other than to upset and frustrate people and drive them away from the site. We're almost 200 posts into this thread and not one single person's mind has been changed, but a lot of people's feathers have been ruffled on both sides of the debate. I doubt even Fed Up is getting much from this thread, since (s)he seems just as upset about the term "cis" as (s)he was 188 posts ago.

I don't know that we need a moderator to step in and lock this thread, but I think it's well past time to let it die.

From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #189
"and your unwarranted attacks"

Have attacked no one here

"But this site does not owe you a platform for your offtopic views, your political grievances, and your unwarranted attacks"

Is not off topic, TG fiction and TG issues are discussed on this site, I started a discussion on how I think PC and trans mafia attitudes are becoming too prevalent in all areas, and dissenting views are shut down, or as in you case, requested to have shut down.

"We're almost 200 posts into this thread and not one single person's mind has been changed"

Not my job to change anyones mind, never said it was.

"but a lot of people's feathers have been ruffled on both sides of the debate"

Mine are not. Why should anyones? I have brought up relevant opinions, and have met the "burn the witch" cries with reasoned questions.

"but I think it's well past time to let it die"

If I see something else, or think of something else, I find relevant to the thread, I will post it. No one is required to read it.

But if the moderators want to lock it, is their site, and am glad to have it.....but it would in some ways prove my point, that those crying the most for diversity and understanding, are some of the least tolerant of views not matching theirs.

From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #190
Message deleted by MissMako. Disrespectful and not Civil per the guidelines.
From: guest , 31 months, post #191
TG transformation fiction has next to nothing to do with the transgender community. The vast majority of people who are into TG transformation do not identify as the opposite sex or want to live as the opposite sex; most people on this site are not transgender, not in the sense that mainstream society uses that term. And the vast majority of people who are transgender are not interested in TG transformation fiction. There is some crossover; I am both transgender and interested in TG transformation fiction. But the overlap is very, very, very small.

We in the TG fiction community use the term "transgender" in a way that is very different than how society at large uses it. The term "cisgender" has little to no relation to the word "transgender" as we use it on this site; it has to do with the word "transgender" as the rest of society uses it. It's possible to be both cisgender and interested in TG transformation fiction; it's not possible to be both cisgender and transgender, because those words are meant to be opposites. They're meant to be antonyms. One is not better than the other; one was simply coined to be the opposite of the other.

Saying that this thread is on topic is perhaps akin to saying that a discussion about America's foreign policy is on topic on an America Ferrera fan forum. Just because America Ferrera happens to share a name with a country doesn't meant that anything using the word "America" relates to her.

Most transgender people aren't interested in TG fiction; most people interested in TG fiction aren't transgender. Most people who visit this site don't use the word "cisgender," because it's not generally a relevant term on this site. So what's the point of having a thread on this site complaining about the use of a word that most people on this site don't use? How is that on topic? There ARE people in this community who occasionally use the word "cisgender," yes, but there are also people in this community who occasionally use the word "fuck," another word that bothers a lot of people. That doesn't mean that a thread about whether it's okay to say the word "fuck" is on topic on this site.

If you want to talk about how transgender people use the word "cisgender," take it to a site that discusses transgender issues, or that discusses politics, or that at least discusses something related to the topic. If you want to talk about how people on Fictionmania use the word "cisgender," take it to Fictionmania. On Metamorphose, we discuss the very narrow topic of transformation. Discussing the linguistic habits of people who aren't interested in transformation, eg most transgender people, is off topic.

From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #192
From my first post

“the Transmafia tactics are getting rather stale. Has even gotten to the point if an author, in a fiction story, does not use what the Transmafia thinks are correct words, the author is attacked.”


“On Metamorphose, we discuss the very narrow topic of transformation. Discussing the linguistic habits of people who aren't interested in transformation, eg most transgender people, is off topic.”

Including TG fiction stories? You own Metamorphose to the point of being able to dictate that? Have you been on here back to the time it was TG only?

From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #193
"Ginuwine Accused Of Transphobia For Refusing To Kiss Trans Woman On Live TV"

From: guest , 31 months, post #194
Actually, I have been following this site since it was TG only; I've been following it since it was Ovid's site. Possibly since it was the Gender Change Fiction List, before it was a site at all. I have as deep roots on this site as anyone... not that that's relevant.

This site is not about the transgender community, it's about transformation. Real-life transitioning has not, in my experience, fallen under the umbrella of what we generally discuss on Metamorphose, in the same way that other medical "transformations," like weight loss surgery and cosmetic surgery, generally aren't discussed on this site. We also generally don't discuss stories on Fictionmania and other TG fiction sites that deal with crossdressing or realistic transitioning, which I would imagine are the stories where the issues of terminology come up. We talk about magical transformations, sci-fi transformations, possessions,body swaps... generally not hormone therapy and genital surgery. But even if we did discuss the physical "transformations" transgender people undergo, that's not what this thread is about; this thread is about someone's complaitns about, essentially, trans activism and the language trans people and their allies use. That's not on topic.

If you have an issue with terminology used in a particular story, leave a comment on that story. If you have an issue with how people on sites like Fictionmania respond to stories, talk about it on that site. And if you want to discuss your issues with the transgender community, there are other, better, more relevant, and more receptive places to discuss it.

I don't own this site. Neither do you. So please don't use it as a space to vent about your opinions about the transgender community. All you're doing is making this site more hostile for a small subset of our visitors, people for whom the rest of the world is already hostile, and who come here as a form of escapism. And yes, we don't have to read this thread; but the title of the thread itself is hostile. I feel hurt every time I see it pop up again. I've been using one incarnation or another of this site for almost two decades--for half my life!--and I've never felt so unwelcome as I have since this thread was started.

I can't make you stop. But I beg you, please stop. You're not helping anyone, and I doubt you're helping yourself. You're not changing anyone's minds. You're not making anyone feel better. You're only hurting people.

From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #195
Nothing I have posted is required reading.

Again, not my job to change someone’s mind

The only hostility I have seen is from those who cannot stand that someone is not towing the line, and agreeing with the transmafia movement.

The PC transmafia that is seeping into too many aspects of life, including TG fiction, it is hurting people. I spoke up for them.

I started this conversation about TG fiction, this site deals with that. No one, not even you is required to read it, agree to it, or even post about it.

From: JosieChung , 31 months, post #196
Years back, Fictionmania tried hosting these kind of threads in their Mosh Pit. Even though it was kept in a separate messageboard, the deliberate trolling and angry divisiveness kept leaking into other parts of the site. Thankfully, saner heads prevailed and excised the Mosh Pit before it drove a huge swath of regulars away.

I think most of us get quite enough of political crap and grar from the rest of our lives, and we come to treasure the islands on the Internet where we can briefly escape from it. If Fed Up's kind of whining and divisiveness is what Paul, the site owner, and mods are happy seeing pop up continuously... well, I don't need any more of that in my life. This isn't an ultimatum, just goodbye. Try to be kind to each other.


From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #197
Should A [TG Novelist Be Politically Correct?

"The problem is that it [PC has invaded an art form that can be dangerously compromised by the basic tenets of political correctness, which posits that any expression or attitude that discomfits others must be excised from all forms of public communication."

"We are currently going through a period where speech is being severely restricted and goal posts of tolerance are moving closer to allegedly protect people from discomfort of any kind."

From: guest (Fed Up) , 31 months, post #198
"well, I don't need any more of that in my life."

Then do not look at it. No one is required to look at, read, or post to this thread.

TG fiction non-fiction writing is discussed on this page, TG movies are discussed on this page. When the TG movie "The Assignment" (Reassignment) was protested by the PC police, it was discussed on this page.

When some countries did not want to show, or radically change a series like Laloa, for political or religious reasons, it was discussed on this page.

Yes it got off topic in places from the original post, not all by me, but the one thing that continued through it, from the original thread, was shut my voice down.

From: guest , 31 months, post #199
Fed Up, do you realize the irony of complaining about political correctness and censorship in a thread that's founded on your insistence that trans people and their allies shouldn't use a word that you don't like?

From: guest (Bob2006) , 31 months, post #200
Asking someone not to call you cis isnt the same as deplatforming, harassment, and doxing, which are the things Fedup and others are warning you about.

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