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From: guest (Fed Up)
, 78 months, post #1 |
There was a post on Fictionmania where I called out a transgendered
poster for using the term cis-women, instead of women.
In return I was called a bigot
So I rebutted with it is quite bigoted to label women as anything
other than what they are, women, in order to make yourself feel
better. Fictionmania removed my post.
Love Fictionmania, but the Transmafia tactics are getting rather
stale. Has even gotten to the point if an author, in a fiction
story, does not use what the Transmafia thinks are correct words,
the author is attacked.
Fiction, it is right there in the title of Fictionmania. It is not
called Socialjusticemania, PCmania, RighttewayIdemandorelsemania.
It is make believe.
The PC - Transmafia has reared its head there, here, and too many
other sites, and will in time ruin a good thing.
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From: guest
, 78 months, post #2 |
- is an asshole*
- gets called out for being an asshole*
"help im being oppressed!"
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From: guest (Fed Up)
, 78 months, post #3 |
So you too feel it is ok to label women other than what they are,
and think they should not be defended?
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From: guest (Fed Up)
, 78 months, post #4 |
This entire Transmafia thing goes way past a place like this on the
internet.
A teenage boy, with a teenage boys body, bone structure, hormones,
chromosomes, etc. Can all of a sudden declare he is a she, and be
allowed to atheltically compete against girls with teenage girls
body, bone structure, hormones, chromosomes, etc., and of course
beat them.
Stand up for those girls, and you are a bigot.
I may be trans, but I am not Transmafia.
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From: guest
, 78 months, post #5 |
I don’t know, when I was a teen, there were plenty of teen girls,
with their chromosomes, that could outperform me in any sport. I
wasn’t the most ‘bone structurelly’ gifted person out there.
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From: guest
, 78 months, post #6 |
That is not what he means by 'bone structurelly'
Anyone who has seen a forensic scene on TV can tell you the gender
of a skeleton is identified by bone shapes.
There are physical biological difference men and women have but
stupid people have gotten more stupid people to conflate physical
and mental of gender to be the same
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From: guest (SuperGuest)
, 78 months, post #7 |
Ciswoman is not inherently an insult, you were just getting upset
over nothing
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From: guest
, 78 months, post #8 |
I don't know the context, but a good rule of thumb is to not take
anyone that uses cis-anything unironically seriously.
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From: guest (Bud)
, 78 months, post #9 |
Check your privilege.
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From: guest (Unknownorange)
, 78 months, post #10 |
man why are cis dudes so goddamn fragile?
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From: guest (Cathy)
, 78 months, post #11 |
It's hard to just something like this out of context. If the people
who said "cis-women" was saying this because it was important to
the point being made to distinguish them from women who were not
raised as women or who were born male. It was appropriate to use
the word. If it was not important, then I would have just said
"women."
If, for example, I wanted to mention something about your first
period catching you in an awkward place, I might say "Only
cis-women will ever know what it is like..." especially in a place
like fictionmania where, regardless of what anyone else thinks of
them, there are many people who consider themselves include in the
group of "women" who never have and never will have that
experience.
If you say that "women" is the appropriate word in that case, then
you are clearly and inarguably implying that anyone who was NOT
born with the physical equipment to have periods (including women
born with any birth defect that might affect those systems) are NOT
"women" and I can see why many people would see that statement as
being potentially very offensive to many.
FYI, I also agree that it is wrong to allow physical males to
compete in athletics with physical females. If the distinction is
for physical reasons (and to be fair) then the criteria should be
physical only -- "identity" or "mental" states should be
irrelevant. If we dismiss the physical then there should be NO
distinction between male and female in athletics. Anything else is
just political and unfair.
Full disclosure: Speaking as a many-years post-operative male to
female. And I do not talk about myself as a "trans-woman" outside
of specific circles. For most people's purposes, I am, and am never
perceived to be anything but female and no one has any need (or
desire as far as I know) to know anything more. I don't make a big
deal about it one way or the other and it just is what it is. Live
and let live is my attitude.
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From: guest (wronger)
, 78 months, post #12 |
If, for example, I wanted to mention something about your first
period catching you in an awkward place, I might say "Only
cis-women will ever know what it is like..."
Wrong. Transman can also have periods in awkward places. Try again.
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From: guest
, 78 months, post #13 |
reading posts like this I understand why legal language is so tough
to understand, but is quite clear to those that know how to read it
one person saying they hate blue does not mean they love all other
colors
chill - its a point of view and its not going to destroy your world
if one person speaks one word out of place in a paragraph or their
opinion does not match your's
ask for clarification to make sure you understand before you throw
a person under a bus.
g'ahh people its a forum, don't like a thread- avoid it
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From: guest (Cathy)
, 78 months, post #14 |
Wronger: "Wrong. Transman can also have periods in awkward places.
Try again."
Thanks, but I don't need to "try again." I'm not trying to be
perfect. I said that is something that I might say. I didn't say it
would be 100% accurate. My intent is just to give an example of
where it MIGHT be appropriate to use the word "cis-women" -- even
though I probably should have included "trans-men."
Part of my point was that unless you are specifically trying to be
exclusive and/or offensive, people should give some leeway -- but
if you are, you should expect, to some degree, to be called out on
it.
You caught me in my state of not-being-perfect. Congrats! If you
need me to say this, I will -- you win.
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From: guest (Context)
, 78 months, post #15 |
The full context, in case anyone is interested:
A poster on Fictionmania said this:
"From these MD, they said male who takes estrogen elminates his sex
drive, in a lot of cases, elminates his sex drive. So what's the
joy of transforming to a female when you have no sex drive?"
In response to which a transwoman said this:
"I've been on estrogen for eight years and my sex drive is as
healthy as ever. Not the same as when I was on male hormones, but I
feel like I'm more in control of my own sexuality and I like that.
If a cis-man were to take it, it probably would eliminate sex
drive. For a transwoman, though, it usually only lowers it
somewhat.
"I've read that in the minority of trans people who have
transitioned and regret it, they experienced a profound loss of sex
drive. That may be a warning sign that a chemical transition isn't
right for a person.
"Also, recognize that cis-women don't have a great surplus of
testosterone and run on estrogen and yet they have functioning sex
lives. Clearly, there's more at work then just hormones."
Fed up then said "Fix it for you" and reposted everything the
transwoman had said, but with "cis-man" changed to "man" and
"cis-women" changed to "women."
In reponse to which the transwoman said this:
"Cisgender refers to a person who's physical sex and gender
identity match at birth. You're trying to make the argument that we
should assume that the words "men" or "women" automatically mean
cisgender...well, that's called bigotry. Because it means that
trans people aren't men or women by that definition. It would be as
bad as assuming that you meant "white men" by saying men or "men"
by saying people. I assume that this has been explained to you
before and you remain willfully transphobic.
"I hope this doesn't distract the original poster from the point I
was making."
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From: guest (Context)
, 78 months, post #16 |
This is an appropriate use of the terms "cisman" and "ciswoman,"
IMO. The transwoman is saying that, if a cisman were to take
estrogen and testosterone blockers, it would likely lower his sex
drive; it's useful to distinguish cis-men from transmen in this
case, since transmen typically have high estrogen and low
testosterone before transition. The transwoman is also saying that
ciswomen have low levels of testosterone and high levels of
estrogen, which is not the case for transwomen before transition.
"Cisman" and "ciswoman" are not meant to be offensive terms;
they're merely a way to distinguish between men who are trans and
men who are not and women who are trans and women who are not. It's
a useful term, and without "cis-", there is no succinct way to make
that distinction that does not marginalize trans people and devalue
their identities. Precision in language is useful.
Some cis people have decided, for reasons that escape me, that
"cis" is a slur, but I know of almost no one who actually uses it
as a slur.
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From: guest (Cathy)
, 78 months, post #17 |
I agree. I think adding "cis" was appropriate here and removing it,
especially with the "fix it for you" comment, seems like an intent
to start a conflict.
FYI, I had no sex drive pre-hormones... was a virgin longer than
anyone I knew. I got on after starting hormone treatments -- though
I previously had a "normal" testosterone level. The testosterone
just drove me up the wall 'cause nothing felt right for me in my,
then, form.
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From: guest
, 78 months, post #18 |
My intent is just to give an example of where it MIGHT be
appropriate to use the word "cis-women" -- even though I probably
should have included "trans-men."
there are no such situation. men and women are not roles that you
can choose or change, only fantasize about it. men and women are
biological conditions. what you wanna do is saying that if a plant
moves, it should be called an animal, and if an animal stands
forever at the same place, it should be called a veggie.
if "what one feels that is important", well, you just gave every
pedophile an alibi... they feel like a children, and children cant
be accused of pedophilia.
bite me.
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From: guest (Lorinell)
, 78 months, post #19 |
Term "cis" should be used only in specific situations, science
bulletins etc...
In real world, calling someone cis-woman instead of woman is just
not making sense. Majority is thing, what should be treated as
base...
For example - in UK, doctors get instruction to call pregnant women
"pregnant people" instead of "expectant mother", because it is
offending to trans people, who can be pregnant and not identify as
woman and future mother. No, this is not proper way to make things.
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From: guest (lets_be_real)
, 78 months, post #20 |
Let's be serious here for a moment. It should be obvious to anyone
who understands the SJW movement at its root what the cis label is.
It's a tactic to undermine inherent male or female biology.
"You're not a man or a woman. You're just a cis-man/woman."
Implying that someone is identifying as something they were
"assigned at birth" in a vagrant attempt to give credibility to
"Trans men and women" that they somehow are justified in calling
themselves, actual men or women. Even though biology says
differently.
The TG stuff is a fetish for a lot of people here. Nothing more.
Some people take it to the extent of transitioning and some don't.
Some don't have the fetish and feel for some reason they have to
transition. The point is regardless of where you fall. You are
still either a man or a woman. This "cis" crap is ridiculous and
people who think it's legitimate are very misguided.
Stop trying to change reality to fit your fantasy. I'm not a
cis-man or woman anymore than I am Cis-Human.
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