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PC and the Transmafia
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From: guest (Fed Up) , 44 months, post #1
There was a post on Fictionmania where I called out a transgendered poster for using the term cis-women, instead of women.

In return I was called a bigot

So I rebutted with it is quite bigoted to label women as anything other than what they are, women, in order to make yourself feel better. Fictionmania removed my post.

Love Fictionmania, but the Transmafia tactics are getting rather stale. Has even gotten to the point if an author, in a fiction story, does not use what the Transmafia thinks are correct words, the author is attacked.

Fiction, it is right there in the title of Fictionmania. It is not called Socialjusticemania, PCmania, RighttewayIdemandorelsemania. It is make believe.

The PC - Transmafia has reared its head there, here, and too many other sites, and will in time ruin a good thing.

From: guest , 44 months, post #2
  • is an asshole*
  • gets called out for being an asshole*
"help im being oppressed!"

From: guest (Fed Up) , 44 months, post #3
So you too feel it is ok to label women other than what they are, and think they should not be defended?

From: guest (Fed Up) , 44 months, post #4
This entire Transmafia thing goes way past a place like this on the internet.

A teenage boy, with a teenage boys body, bone structure, hormones, chromosomes, etc. Can all of a sudden declare he is a she, and be allowed to atheltically compete against girls with teenage girls body, bone structure, hormones, chromosomes, etc., and of course beat them.

Stand up for those girls, and you are a bigot.

I may be trans, but I am not Transmafia.

From: guest , 44 months, post #5
I don’t know, when I was a teen, there were plenty of teen girls, with their chromosomes, that could outperform me in any sport. I wasn’t the most ‘bone structurelly’ gifted person out there.

From: guest , 44 months, post #6
That is not what he means by 'bone structurelly'
Anyone who has seen a forensic scene on TV can tell you the gender of a skeleton is identified by bone shapes.
There are physical biological difference men and women have but stupid people have gotten more stupid people to conflate physical and mental of gender to be the same

From: guest (SuperGuest) , 44 months, post #7
Ciswoman is not inherently an insult, you were just getting upset over nothing

From: guest , 44 months, post #8
I don't know the context, but a good rule of thumb is to not take anyone that uses cis-anything unironically seriously.

From: guest (Bud) , 44 months, post #9
Check your privilege.

From: guest (Unknownorange) , 44 months, post #10
man why are cis dudes so goddamn fragile?

From: guest (Cathy) , 44 months, post #11
It's hard to just something like this out of context. If the people who said "cis-women" was saying this because it was important to the point being made to distinguish them from women who were not raised as women or who were born male. It was appropriate to use the word. If it was not important, then I would have just said "women."

If, for example, I wanted to mention something about your first period catching you in an awkward place, I might say "Only cis-women will ever know what it is like..." especially in a place like fictionmania where, regardless of what anyone else thinks of them, there are many people who consider themselves include in the group of "women" who never have and never will have that experience.

If you say that "women" is the appropriate word in that case, then you are clearly and inarguably implying that anyone who was NOT born with the physical equipment to have periods (including women born with any birth defect that might affect those systems) are NOT "women" and I can see why many people would see that statement as being potentially very offensive to many.

FYI, I also agree that it is wrong to allow physical males to compete in athletics with physical females. If the distinction is for physical reasons (and to be fair) then the criteria should be physical only -- "identity" or "mental" states should be irrelevant. If we dismiss the physical then there should be NO distinction between male and female in athletics. Anything else is just political and unfair.

Full disclosure: Speaking as a many-years post-operative male to female. And I do not talk about myself as a "trans-woman" outside of specific circles. For most people's purposes, I am, and am never perceived to be anything but female and no one has any need (or desire as far as I know) to know anything more. I don't make a big deal about it one way or the other and it just is what it is. Live and let live is my attitude.

From: guest (wronger) , 44 months, post #12
If, for example, I wanted to mention something about your first period catching you in an awkward place, I might say "Only cis-women will ever know what it is like..."
Wrong. Transman can also have periods in awkward places. Try again.

From: guest , 44 months, post #13
reading posts like this I understand why legal language is so tough to understand, but is quite clear to those that know how to read it

one person saying they hate blue does not mean they love all other colors

chill - its a point of view and its not going to destroy your world if one person speaks one word out of place in a paragraph or their opinion does not match your's

ask for clarification to make sure you understand before you throw a person under a bus.

g'ahh people its a forum, don't like a thread- avoid it

From: guest (Cathy) , 44 months, post #14
Wronger: "Wrong. Transman can also have periods in awkward places. Try again."

Thanks, but I don't need to "try again." I'm not trying to be perfect. I said that is something that I might say. I didn't say it would be 100% accurate. My intent is just to give an example of where it MIGHT be appropriate to use the word "cis-women" -- even though I probably should have included "trans-men."

Part of my point was that unless you are specifically trying to be exclusive and/or offensive, people should give some leeway -- but if you are, you should expect, to some degree, to be called out on it.

You caught me in my state of not-being-perfect. Congrats! If you need me to say this, I will -- you win.

From: guest (Context) , 44 months, post #15
The full context, in case anyone is interested:

A poster on Fictionmania said this:

"From these MD, they said male who takes estrogen elminates his sex drive, in a lot of cases, elminates his sex drive. So what's the joy of transforming to a female when you have no sex drive?"

In response to which a transwoman said this:

"I've been on estrogen for eight years and my sex drive is as healthy as ever. Not the same as when I was on male hormones, but I feel like I'm more in control of my own sexuality and I like that. If a cis-man were to take it, it probably would eliminate sex drive. For a transwoman, though, it usually only lowers it somewhat.

"I've read that in the minority of trans people who have transitioned and regret it, they experienced a profound loss of sex drive. That may be a warning sign that a chemical transition isn't right for a person.

"Also, recognize that cis-women don't have a great surplus of testosterone and run on estrogen and yet they have functioning sex lives. Clearly, there's more at work then just hormones."

Fed up then said "Fix it for you" and reposted everything the transwoman had said, but with "cis-man" changed to "man" and "cis-women" changed to "women."

In reponse to which the transwoman said this:

"Cisgender refers to a person who's physical sex and gender identity match at birth. You're trying to make the argument that we should assume that the words "men" or "women" automatically mean cisgender...well, that's called bigotry. Because it means that trans people aren't men or women by that definition. It would be as bad as assuming that you meant "white men" by saying men or "men" by saying people. I assume that this has been explained to you before and you remain willfully transphobic.

"I hope this doesn't distract the original poster from the point I was making."

From: guest (Context) , 44 months, post #16
This is an appropriate use of the terms "cisman" and "ciswoman," IMO. The transwoman is saying that, if a cisman were to take estrogen and testosterone blockers, it would likely lower his sex drive; it's useful to distinguish cis-men from transmen in this case, since transmen typically have high estrogen and low testosterone before transition. The transwoman is also saying that ciswomen have low levels of testosterone and high levels of estrogen, which is not the case for transwomen before transition.

"Cisman" and "ciswoman" are not meant to be offensive terms; they're merely a way to distinguish between men who are trans and men who are not and women who are trans and women who are not. It's a useful term, and without "cis-", there is no succinct way to make that distinction that does not marginalize trans people and devalue their identities. Precision in language is useful.

Some cis people have decided, for reasons that escape me, that "cis" is a slur, but I know of almost no one who actually uses it as a slur.

From: guest (Cathy) , 44 months, post #17
I agree. I think adding "cis" was appropriate here and removing it, especially with the "fix it for you" comment, seems like an intent to start a conflict.

FYI, I had no sex drive pre-hormones... was a virgin longer than anyone I knew. I got on after starting hormone treatments -- though I previously had a "normal" testosterone level. The testosterone just drove me up the wall 'cause nothing felt right for me in my, then, form.

From: guest , 44 months, post #18
My intent is just to give an example of where it MIGHT be appropriate to use the word "cis-women" -- even though I probably should have included "trans-men."

there are no such situation. men and women are not roles that you can choose or change, only fantasize about it. men and women are biological conditions. what you wanna do is saying that if a plant moves, it should be called an animal, and if an animal stands forever at the same place, it should be called a veggie.

if "what one feels that is important", well, you just gave every pedophile an alibi... they feel like a children, and children cant be accused of pedophilia.

bite me.

From: guest (Lorinell) , 43 months, post #19
Term "cis" should be used only in specific situations, science bulletins etc...
In real world, calling someone cis-woman instead of woman is just not making sense. Majority is thing, what should be treated as base...
For example - in UK, doctors get instruction to call pregnant women "pregnant people" instead of "expectant mother", because it is offending to trans people, who can be pregnant and not identify as woman and future mother. No, this is not proper way to make things.

From: guest (lets_be_real) , 43 months, post #20
Let's be serious here for a moment. It should be obvious to anyone who understands the SJW movement at its root what the cis label is.

It's a tactic to undermine inherent male or female biology.

"You're not a man or a woman. You're just a cis-man/woman." Implying that someone is identifying as something they were "assigned at birth" in a vagrant attempt to give credibility to "Trans men and women" that they somehow are justified in calling themselves, actual men or women. Even though biology says differently.

The TG stuff is a fetish for a lot of people here. Nothing more. Some people take it to the extent of transitioning and some don't. Some don't have the fetish and feel for some reason they have to transition. The point is regardless of where you fall. You are still either a man or a woman. This "cis" crap is ridiculous and people who think it's legitimate are very misguided.

Stop trying to change reality to fit your fantasy. I'm not a cis-man or woman anymore than I am Cis-Human.

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