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Why so many "involuntarily stuck" ending in TG?
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From: guest (Zam Zam) , 20 months, post #1
Spielberg once remarked that the best stories are about someone who loses control over his life then wins it back again.

I agree with this.

The best TG stories are ones where in the ending main character either change back or has the option to change back but refuse.

However, I find that disproportionately high number of stories in Fictionmania have the "unwillingly stuck" ending.

Not to say there is anything wrong with it. The writers are not writing script for blockbusters, they are writing on a niche interest for small audience.

But I am curious why so many of this ending where main characters don't have the option to switch back?

From: guest , 20 months, post #2
I think that many people love the unwilling cases, maybe find them more titillating. Maybe it's just a usual kink, maybe a way to distance themselves from a desire to change, who knows. For mass entertainment products like TV shows, having a character change back to his or her original self is convenient (especially for a TV episode) and less likely to cause controversy.

Me, I'm stuck being male (too perfectionistic to settle for current gender-change technology) and want to be an attractive female, so I like stories in which a guy chooses and gets permanent womanhood. Love to find the SRU shop and end up happily stuck as a young woman in pleasant circumstances.

From: guest (random guy) , 20 months, post #3
The TVtropes website gives an explanation to this as the 3 Laws of Gender Bending. I recommend you to read those.
Other than that, i think guest #2 got the right idea. It satisfies most people's kink if the transformee stays that way.

From: guest , 20 months, post #4
In Vice Versa, when male and female crooks end up in each other's bodies for good. That is pretty cruel since they are forced to live as the opposite gender against their will.

From: guest , 20 months, post #5
Currently most of the story published are about being dominated (Physically Forced or Blackmailed, Femdom, Authoritarian ...).
So it's like "everyone" follow the trend ?

From: guest , 20 months, post #6
It's very much "diff'rent strokes for diff'rent fo'ks" here. I'd agree there's a lot of involuntary stuff (though more crossdressing, with a little surgical/hormonal stuff) on Fictionmania and such these days, not a lot of happy volunteers.

From: DB Cooper , 20 months, post #7
Since the TG change is pretty much the one transformation that could really happen, people with this kink are faced with the idea of 'So why don't I see a therapist to get the ball rolling?' A lot of us couldn't face the ordeal of coming out, the rejection, the therapy, etc. But what if I was magically changed or forced to change? Completely out of my control. Gosh, I hate this...darn it.

From: guest , 20 months, post #8
Yeah, I've wondered whether involuntary changes are just a way to pretend you don't want something you actually do want but rather wouldn't admit to. Maybe not universally but often...

From: guest (Zam Zam) , 20 months, post #9
I understood the desire for a "stuck" ending. However as I said in my OP, other than the "change back" option, another way to have the ending where the protagonist "wins" is by having him finally finds out way to change back but decides not to. I think Lalola did it pretty good.

When we follow a story long enough, we begin to sympathize with the protagonist & want him to finally taking charge back of his life. "Involuntary stuck" ending leaves bad taste in my mouth.

From: guest (Jill) , 20 months, post #10
it feels cheap, like tip toeing into the pool finding out it's to cold then getting back out. Another example is being trapped in a room and let out a day or two later rather then go through all the emotions of being trapped and dying.

So in a person if I'm only them for a period of time am I really them or am I just me in their body, if I'm stuck as that person I have to go through the range of emotions dealing with my fate of who I am now.

From: guest (Lorinell) , 20 months, post #11
It's because majority of TG fans, like this :)
Of course - most of those stories are in domination fetish, so ultimate control over someone life in aspect even such crucible like gender - is fullifing needs of readers.
More non-fetish stucks, are stories about adaptation and acceptation and sometimes affirmation.

I have another thought about that, but it need new topic.

From: guest , 20 months, post #12
Which of his films follow that format?
Most films end with the hero having mental health issues, Jaws, Saving private Ryan, ET etc

I can only think of Indiana Jones that doesn't end with the hero permanently altered in some way.

I don't see how changing gender is any different to finding out aliens exist, surviving war, dinosaur attack, alien invasion, AI, ghosts or giant sharks, all are massive changes in a persons life.

From: guest (Jayzie) , 20 months, post #13
Personally I always thought that it was because one person or a small group of people made up all of the rules for the body swap tg genre.
You'll notice a lot of unilateral rules like "no killing" and lot of other hindrances to creative potential.
But if body swaps were real then you would have a lot of unsavory situations that occurred. Even the scenario of "getting stuck" in a person's body.

From: guest (Nintendo_Ninja) , 20 months, post #14
I hink it's because we enjoy watching someone struggle with being the opposite gender. If the character is given the chance to change back and does, then the fun of watching him/her having to deal with the gender change is over.

If the character chooses to stay as the new gender, then again the fun of watching said character having to adapt to a new gender is over. Since the character doesn't struggle with the new gender any more, there's little appeal to the story anymore.

But a stuck ending allows the character to continue struggling with the new gender even after the end of the story, meaning those interested in gender changes can continue to enjoy the conflict all the way until the end.

From: guest (Zam Zam) , 8 months, post #15
Nintendo Ninja said,

"If the character chooses to stay as the new gender, then again the fun of watching said character having to adapt to a new gender is over. Since the character doesn't struggle with the new gender any more, there's little appeal to the story anymore."

But if it is already the ENDING, why would it mattered anymore? what more to watch? The story is already over. I would like the character we root for all along the course of movie/show to gain victory in the end by finally getting access to change back and then decided on their own volition whether to change back or voluntarily stay in their current state.

From: treecatt , 8 months, post #16
I think part of it, in regards to mass market media, is that it is more socially acceptable for it to be an involuntary change that the MC recovers from after learning his lesson (usually to stop be a chauvinistic pig who doesn't respect women). After all, no one would actually want to remain as a member of the opposite sex.

I personally prefer stories where the MC wants the change to occur. Since the stories on this site has gradually focused more and more on a forced change (domination, punishment, etc.) I read a lot fewer stories than I used to. Not saying all the authors must change to suit my desire. I still look for the occasional gem that I find interesting.

From: guest (BlueshiftG) , 8 months, post #17
More interesting question is whether the reader wants to go through a change. If I buy a novel looking for a good read, and at the end it's had no impact on me, I wasted my money and more importantly my time. But if I'm feeding a fetish, I know exactly what I want the book to be; I'm not looking for a change, I'm looking for a recharge. And if I want to try out the experience vicariously as a bit of soul-searching, perhaps it's best if the character is stuck, because then I have to work out how I feel about that.

If the character does revert, and it isn't a play-it-safe "everything back to normal" ending, then basically you have the reverse story to tell... in which case, same question applies.

From: DB Cooper , 8 months, post #18
Part of it has to do with the narrative arc. A guy who has to spend a month as a woman is a lot different than a guy who has to spend a lifetime.

From: Sola , 8 months, post #19
Because the people writing in fictionmania are men who want to be a woman, to get stuck as a woman for life but know that society in general doesn't look at their dreams with good eyes, know that they will be judged if they admit they want to be a woman, If body swaps or magical style transformations were possible people who choose to change genders would not be treated well, but if the change is accidental or imposed on them they would not be judged but accepted, they would be victims and they would have nothing to apologize for, as a matter of fact they would be victims worthy of understanding, adapting to their new reality would be praise worthy and commendable, not something reprobable, and that is why we want to explore that kind of stories, changes that make us what we want to be without the responsibility of choosing that change for ourselves, that is why you barely see stories where a character searches for the a magical object with the express desire of becoming a woman, there are almost no stories of the kind of: "Wow, i have found the medallion of zulo and now I am going to use it to become a woman!" "Great, I am a woman, I love it and I am pretty good at it, my life is now complete happiness, the end"

So basically, a story where the character ends up stuck as a woman against his will is wish fulfilment for us guys who hide our real dreams from the world.

From: greendoubleaught , 8 months, post #20
This question has no answer. Instead, it has people who try to just reason to justify the thing they like.

You could argue in circles with people all day long, with each person trying to use reason or logic or rational justification to explain why they thing they like is better than the thing they don't. I doubt there is an absolute answer to this question.

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