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From: guest (Yuck)
, 87 months, post #81 |
Kill them all!
HAHAHA!
IN MY OPINION, that means it's my opinion. Not yours and no one
else's.
I BELIEVE THERE ARE TWO GENDERS
Accept it or not.
I don't care.
Can't you make the argument that when a person shames someone for
"having privilege" that the person is possibly jealous and insecure
about their own situation/predicament? When you shame me and other
evil white males for being a white cis male, can't you make the
argument that you're jealous that you're not a white cis male?
You shaming me for being an evil cis white male is no different
than when someone shames someone for being gay or transgender.
You're basically a bigot because you treat someone negatively and
differently just because of something they can't control.
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From: guest (guessed)
, 87 months, post #82 |
@Yuck/Bauxite "You shaming me for being an evil cis white male is
no different than when someone shames someone for being gay or
transgender. You're basically a bigot because you treat someone
negatively and differently just because of something they can't
control."
Whack-a-troll is only fun until the trolls start bleeding.
This started with an expression of disgust at the mere existence of
a conspicuously pretty transwoman.
He calls himself an "evil" cismale and talks about things he "can't
control".
As others have suggested here, it is possible that Yuck may in
distress, trying to work through her gender dysphoria and/or her
attraction to trans-bodied women.
Good luck to you Yuck.
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From: guest (Yuck)
, 87 months, post #83 |
You need to take a reading comprehension class. I was mocking you
for being a hypocrite and a bigot. I stated that you shame me
because I don't agree with you on how "people can be whatever
gender they want" and I shouldn't disagree with that and bow down
to your logic and opinion. You're a bigot and hypocrite because you
stereotyped and made prejudgments about me simply because I'm a cis
male. That's no different than people that do the same toward gay
people and transgender people. You say that transgender people
"can't control" who they are and you give them sympathy and want to
give them a parade yet you rip me a new asshole for being a cis
male.
So let me get this straight, you want me to bow down to the whole
"you can be whatever gender you want to be" but you also get to
bash and degrade me for being a cis male? This is your sales pitch?
I have to say you're a pretty bad salesperson if you think people
are going to join your team with that type of arrogant
condescending "holier than thou" attitude.
I also laughed that you made the assumption that I am trans.
I'm a sexual deviant that gets turned on when I see guys
"magically" turned into or swapped with women. Nothing more.
Nothing less.
Good day sir!
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From: guest (CAPSLOCKTRANSGIRL)
, 87 months, post #84 |
Know what the difference is between a suspiciously defensive
transphobic TG fetishist and a trans woman with even more baggage
than usual is?
2 years.
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From: guest
, 87 months, post #85 |
Exact CLTG, this guy is acting like someone in DEEP denial. I am
not angry at him. I feel sorry for him. Something is driving him
like this and I honestly don't think that it's just "wanting to
win."
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From: guest
, 87 months, post #86 |
The narcissistic rage seems real, though.
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From: guest
, 87 months, post #87 |
Also, I don't want Yuck to join my team.
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From: guest
, 87 months, post #88 |
I dunno if that's personal experience for you, CAPSLOCKTRANSGIRL,
or just what you have seen in others but it was definitely my path.
I had a group of friends, on of whom was out as a TS, and I was one
of the few who would not use the word "she" when referring to this
person. In retrospect, I think I was keeping "myself" in check by
convincing myself that this just CANT be done. Mainly because I was
terrified of the process and the social stigma. Doing that DID keep
me in check but made me almost suicidal, though never quite.
Post transition I have been doing much better and am much happier.
Trying to deny who or what you are is always tough and sure creates
a lot of anger and frustration.
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From: guest (guessed)
, 87 months, post #89 |
@guest #87
"Also, I don't want Yuck to join my team."
I am not sure what "team" you are on, but as far as I can tell
there is not really a way to tell who might
be trans, or he might be an ally, from the way that they act.
write, or speak before they make the turn.
Yuck (also Bauxite and possibly Bluenote) is a persona adopted by a
flesh-and-blood person for the purposes of harassing people on a
internet message board.
S/he seems deeply unhappy and angry -- a condition many transfolk
endure as they contend with GD.
Sexually aroused by the idea of TG transformations while being
hostile to the idea of real-world transition is -- for those of a
certain age maybe -- a familiar trajectory.
Yuck may not be the 21st century version of the semi-mythical "heterosexual crossdresser"
but if not s/he is doing a very
good impersonation.
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From: guest
, 87 months, post #90 |
Yuck said that capslockgirl was doing badly in recruiting for her
team. I don't know what team that is, but I wouldn't work too hard
to recruit him. Generally, people with toxic attitudes don't make
good allies, as far as I can tell. People in deep denial are rarely
won over by rational arguments.
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From: guest (Kara)
, 87 months, post #91 |
Okay, I strongly disagree with the theory that any
heterocrossdresser is just in denial. They are not "semi-mythical".
They do, in fact, exist.
It's possible that some may discover that they're bi or even gay
after a period of time but I know many who are "lesbian" and only
have relations with customer or maybe post-SRS transwomen. It's a
fetish and not a flag that they're secretly attracted to the same
gender.
I do believe they are in the minority though as a fair percentage
do eventually come out as trans.
But "semi-mythical"? No.
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From: guest (Kara)
, 87 months, post #92 |
"Ciswomen". Not sure why Spell Check changed that to "customer".
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From: guest (guessed)
, 87 months, post #93 |
@Kara "Okay, I strongly disagree with the theory that any
heterocrossdresser is just in denial. They are not "semi-mythical".
They do, in fact, exist."
I don't knwo if you clicked on the link the Dallas Denny's essay,
but I used the word "semi-mythical" to indicate that the
heterosexual crossdresser -- as defined by Virginia Prince and the
folks in TriEss and the Beaumont Society -- was not rigid and
unchanging identity that it was supposed to be.
The "two years" riddle to which CAPSLOCKTRANSGIRL refers in #84 was
something that circulated among U.S. CDs and TVs at events like
Fantasia Fair and Paradise in the Poconos in the latter part of the
20th c. I think I probably first read it in a copy of TG Tapestry
or En Femme.
Q: What's the difference between a Heterosexual Crossdresser and a
Transsexual?
A: 2 years.
In the day, "heterosexual crossdresser" was the defense married men
would use when they were faced with the equation crossdresser=gay
man.
I think it was actually a step in the right direction, since it
separated gender identity from sexual preference. It was, however
frequently a smokescreen. A self-proclaimed het CD would sometimes
turn out to be "TS". It caused a lot of tension in the community.
Yuck/Bauxite's vehemence and willful ignorance reminds me strongly
of the angry heterosexual CDs I knew. There was shunning and
shaming and even violence directed towards transwomen from the
direction of the heterosexual crossdresser camp. It made it hard
for some folks, transwomen who found their first acceptance in a
TriEss chapter being ejected and ridiculed when they admitted a
desire to go "full time".
It was sometimes as bad in the drag scene. Drag performers
overwhelmingly (although not excursively) identified as gay men,
and performers who transitioned got the same treatment in some
places, and for the same reasons. The idea that gay man =
transwoman was seen as harmful to "the cause" (don't get me started
on the erasure of transwomen from the early history of the gay
rights movement!) in some circles. Among performers there was often
the accepted wisdom that "man performing as a woman" was acting,
not identity -- no matter how effeminate the performer may be when
in drab. It was "about the illusion", not about identity. It was --
and continues to be -- all very complicated.
And this, I think, is the issue for Yuck. S/he appears to be
profoundly uncomfortable with ambiguity. The idea that categories
are not separated by brightly drawn divisions, nor are they fixed
over time, opens the possibility that hir identity is not
permanent. That s/he might be something different from what s/he
appears to be, from what s/he imagines hirself to be. That's a
pretty scary idea -- particularly if s/he is immersed in a culture
that is hostile towards minorities (as we all pretty much are).
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From: guest (KJ)
, 87 months, post #94 |
"Ciswoman", "Ciswomen", "Cisanything" screw your pc, progressive
bullshit
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From: guest (CLTG)
, 87 months, post #95 |
I forget where I heard the “2 years” joke; it may’ve been on
r/asktg on reddit. That was sort of my narrative, but also not
really. I never had the transphobia (except the internalized kind,
but that’s a given) and I was always resistant being called a
crossdresser. I just didn’t jive well with the CD community stuff.
I was never into the sort of clothing that I perceived as fixated
on within the community. For me it was about the body. Which
totally makes sense now.
I dunno, I proposed the concept of yuck as trans primarily as a
joke and to poke at his insecurities, but also to point out that,
yeah, a lot of Narnia-level closeted trans folk justify not
transitioning by it being “biologically impossible” and
subsequently demonizing trans ppl. It’s identity defense, although
it’s mired in shittiness.
If he is cis, it is still identity defense, albeit a different
kind, as previous posters pointed out. When one’s privilege is
pointed out, most people go on the defensive. They feel accused and
attacked because of who they are and claim it’s real discrimination
(Spoiler: it isn’t). Best example is how he kept beating the dead
horse of “you hate me bc I’m a cis white male.” No one did, but to
him, pointing out the limitations of the worldview of a cis white
man is practically assault. Pretty typical, really. Doesn’t excuse
anything, though. He’s still a hateful, willfully ignorant,
transphobic broken record.
I agree it’s possible that he could be trans, although I hate to
armchair like that. It’s fun pressing his buttons, though, I’ll
admit. I collect cis butthurt. That said, I do feel a little unease
assuming so and pronouning him thusly. Not to him specifically, but
I guess the general strategy.
And #94, don't be a such a cissy.
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From: guest (guessed)
, 86 months, post #96 |
@ CLTG "It’s identity defense, although it’s mired in shittiness.
If he is cis, it is still identity defense, albeit a different
kind, as previous posters pointed out. When one’s privilege is
pointed out, most people go on the defensive ...I it’s possible
that he could be trans, although I hate to armchair like that.."
Agreed, on both points. Yuck's transness is dubious, but hir
shiftiness is indisputable.
The ranting though, makes me feel sorry for hir (and not in the
patronizing internet argument "you are so sad" way -- I mean really
sorry that s/he seems to be in such distress).
I keep cycling back to the problem of what can be done to fix this
kind of unreasoning hatred? How do you make someone feel empathy
for someone who has been "othered" How do you cut though the
willful ignorance and tribalism?
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From: guest (Yuck)
, 86 months, post #97 |
Do you honestly think I lose sleep over trans people or a guy
wanting to be a female flight attendant? No, I don't. Do I think
the whole trans thing is weird? Yes. Do I care if a man wants to
pretend and think he's a woman? No, I do not. Do whatever you want
as long as you don't interfere with my daily life and routine. Let
me eat the food I want to eat and look at the fetish shit I want to
look at and we won't have a problem.
You say I'm this big bad intolerant bigot yet you are the one
that's saying you have a team and I'm not allowed to be on it.
Hypocrite much?
When it comes to the whole body swapping fetish or whatever you
want to call it, I will admit that I don't care about the politics
or "social justice". I am more interested in the magic and process
of it and seeing someone experience life from the other half's
perspective and deal with the trials and tribulations.
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From: guest (guessed)
, 86 months, post #98 |
"shiftiness" = "sh!tty-ness"
The autocorrect demon got me too.
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From: guest (guessed)
, 86 months, post #99 |
@ CLTG #96 "That said, I do feel a little unease assuming so and
pronouning him thusly. Not to him specifically, but I guess the
general strategy."
Yeah, was pushing it on the PGP thing. We just had a training at
work that was borderline hilarious. The manager who delivered the
training is a dead-butch and deeply religious middle-aged cisman
who was creeped-out by the whole thing. He kept choking on "cis"
and "trans" -- but he committed to it and made us all proud, It was
very much a reaction to the reactionary crap going on (I am in the
U.S. in state that is getting more socially conservative by the
day). The HR people wanted to make it clear that the management of
our very multinational company, with its long history of inclusive
hiring policies, still thinks that diversity and inclusivity are
important parts of the brand. We were instructed NOT to use
"himself" and "his" as the reflexive neuter anymore. "He or she"
"his/hers" are preferred for business communications outside the
company. "hir" and "s/he" are acceptable for internal
communications. We all now have PGP lines in our email sig files,
and we can put it on our business cards.
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From: guest (KJ)
, 86 months, post #100 |
"kept choking on "cis" and "trans" -- but he committed to it and
made us all proud"
You are scary folks
As I like to say when watching the people like the progressives at
Berkeley beating those who do not fall into their way of
thinking....Nothing says fight fascism quite like physically
beating the hell out of someone who disagrees with you politically.
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