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Getting new identification documents post-transformation
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From: guest (Zhang Fei Dan) , 50 months, post #1
I want to ask, from the all the fiction stories that you all have encountered, what is the most realistic & believable solution for someone who just transforms into another person that doesn't exists (for example, a male transforms into a female version of himself), in term of making himself a real person in the system, which exists in the database, complete with necessary documentation? ?

If you read Fictionmania, many stories there made it as if getting new identification documents is like a piece of cake...

In most of the Lalolas it were discovered as bodyswap (or what some here prefer to call as double transformation) in the end, so documentation is not a problem, Still, I don't think the documentation problem was adequately addressed pre-discovery. Take driving for example. Most of the Lalolas continue to drive after transformation & before discovering their swapped self, even they were technically without driving license at that point. In fact, one of the iconic scenes which appear in almost all versions is the scene where Lola drove to the meeting after her transformation and scolded a woman driver who were doing make up. However, in Belgian & Russian versions, which are the most realistic versions, the Lolas never shown driving and in fact, the above scene still presents but it was Grace who drove them to the meeting instead. Meanwhile, the same scene in Indian version take a comedic turn when a traffic police discovered the photo in her driving license (which was the photo of her former male self) didn't match with her, she resorted to bribe the police in broad daylight in front of a watching crowd.

In a novel I read, which was not about transformation but about time travel, a tv reporter was transported to the past & later transported back to present time together with her new boyfriend, an American Civil War veteran. From her job she happened to know a man who can construct a fake identity & get the necessary documents for her boyfriend.

Granted, that was an old novel and the story probably took place before the advent of digitization. Is the above solution probable in real world though? I can't imagine the above method to be common enough in most countries. Maybe it exists but it sure would be rare. There is also too much coincidence for someone who undergo transformation (in which the chance is perhaps one per a trillion) also happens to know someone who can make this arrangement (maybe one in a million chance). Sure the writer can write it that way, but would the readers/audience buy it though?

From: cj , 50 months, post #2
Possible "realistic" scenarios:

You are transported back in time (and perhaps place) where you, yourself, could forge papers and create a workable identity.

You are transported to a time and place where your identity doesn't really matter -- such as a beautiful young woman, in a land where such women are destined to be taken as wives or concubines.

You are an intelligent and thorough hacker (or know a few) with enough resources to forge (or have forged for you) not only documents, but a backstory with matching records. Bonus, if your new body is a close enough match to someone else that people may remember you as your new identity.

You are a government agent (or recruited by a government), and they do all the work for you.

The government controls who gets swapped, and well, it'd be like the above.

The government is aware that this type of thing happens, and has steps in place to deal with it. Though I'd hate to be part of the first groups -- more likely that you'll "disappear" as they secret you away to run tests on.


But, IMO the best (story-wise) scenario would be:

The TF is a HUGE occurrence, world-wide and with so many transformees, that it simply cannot be ignored. Now this would be a story. How do the various governments and families, communities, companies, and other organizations... medical establishments, professionals, and experts... and religions deal with event? How do they tackle matching people up with their new body, or would they?

How long would it take? How would relationships change? What do the TF'd have to deal with, and how will they cope with not only their own changes, but with how the world interacts with them now?

The chaos that such an event would create would be full of interesting stories. I say "stories", because I don't feel that such an event could be realistically described as having just one solution across every corner of the planet. There are too many dynamics at play in the real world, too many relationships that would be altered in some way, and so on.

From: cj , 50 months, post #3
And I can't believe that I forgot one of the most realistic TF and needing a new ID scenarios.

TF with AR -- if your TF includes AR, and you're reduced to an age where the rest of the world would just dismiss any unbelievable truth you offer, if you can even speak at all. i.e. toddler or infant -- At this point, once no adult claims you, you'll likely be supplied with a new ID by the government and placed into foster care, then perhaps adoption.

Even if you end up AR'd but are older than a toddler, I would suggest playing the amnesia card. It'd be better to fake not knowing who you are, and make the powers that be struggle to prove who you are (which they likely wouldn't be able to do), than to tell them the truth and have them lock you up. I'd rather take my chances as a ward of the state than a lab-rat being experimented on. At least in the US - not sure about other countries and regions.

From: Air Gear , 50 months, post #4
It depends where you end up and who you are, I guess. One day, you're chilling at a pool party for work and one stiletto heel to the head later and you wake up a princess in pre-industrial pre-China ...

From: cj , 50 months, post #5
That'd be more likely in a swap than a TF... where you become an already-known-to-others person (different than yourself).

But I suppose that you could become a cute girl whom the prince chooses to marry, regardless of her lineage.

From: guest (vup) , 50 months, post #6
I'm glad you brought this up! I often wonder how one would go about creating a new identity that would convincingly pass legal muster. If I had too much money, I would consider consulting a lawyer, saying that I was merely writing a book and I need as many details as possible. In the US, you could technically just start using a different name--pre-911 and as long as it's not for fraudulent purposes--without seeing a judge. IDK how it would work now.

Of course though, there are bound to be problems and confusions and I'm not sure how you handle getting ID that doesn't match your birth certificate. It used to be a lot easier for people to get fake ID and get away with it but, as you mention, digitization has made that harder. Drivers licenses used to just be on photo paper. Some countries have less of a paper-trail (or computer record) of their citizens. One 102 year-old woman can't vote in her state because the hospital she was born in burnt down decades and decades ago so she has no birth certificate.

In the stories I've read that were the most convincing, someone would find a person with a paper-trail (birth certificate, school records, no public photos, etc.) who disappeared without a death certificate or a family to come looking for them. You could get hold of those and avoid the places they grew up. And yes, it was usually the gov't that did this but in some stories it's a particularly savvy P.I. who is good at making people disappear a la the witness protection program.

That said, occasionally you still hear in the news stories of some woman engaged in massive fraud who has 7 identities in 5 different states and it takes years to catch her.

I know, tl;dr

From: Air Gear , 50 months, post #7
I think there's still problems in most of the Lalolas because they make up a fictitious cousin and then, in those cases where there was a body swap, they find out their body has an identity which is not what they're using. They're pretending to be a person who does not actually exist and they don't take on the identity when they find out who their body really is. Neither does the other person.

Exception, is Russia (spoilers for the TV show below), where they do end up swapping lives, though that lead to another problem. Originally, Margosha pretended to be her own cousin but then when she gets the person in her original body to pretend to be her back in her workplace and with her parents, that just leads to new problems.

Namely, her parents find the original identification for her new body which has a different name and then of course when our swapped pair get engaged, there's the whole business about being cousins to extricate themselves from before the wedding. I don't know how but somehow they manage to extricate themselves from it.

Belgium, I do know both take on new identities and since everyone's at the wedding at the end, I'm not sure if they even try to explain it.

India, well, in this case, the whole problem gets bumped up from witchcraft to actual gods handling the situation, so I suppose they sort all that out.

From what I recall (sorry if mistaken), Argentina (NO), Peru (NO), Spain (NO) and Chile (God only ever knows with that one - there was swaps, swap backs, doubles at once and the usual hyperreal madness that was uniquely theirs).

From: guest (Zhang Fei Fan) , 50 months, post #8
Hmmm... Interesting answers...

Sounds like supplanting a missing person is the best bet rather than creating a new identity from scratch...

That's still leave the problem of fingerprints though...

From: guest (vup) , 50 months, post #9
Well, the good news is that currently most jobs (non-gov't jobs) don't require fingerprints.

Even better news is that once they start planting unique identifying chips in our heads it will become a lot easier for us to prove our original identities, unless and until that technology gets compromised, in which case, you're fracked.

From: guest (Zhang Fei Fan) , 50 months, post #10
Yeah, but my assumption is that the person doesn't want to let the government know, lest he end up as lab rat.

From: Air Gear , 50 months, post #11
Sounds like it's going to help being self-employed and working from home, isn't it (e.g. The Beauty Inside).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQvPJjDRMcY

From: guest (James) , 50 months, post #12
Zhang Fei Dan, where can I find that novel with the reporter travelling in time?

From: cj , 50 months, post #13
Well... Take the United States...

Identity verification is required to open any banking / credit accounts, rent most anything with more than a small value, most legal actions, licenses and operating permits, most large sale / purchase transactions and almost any that involve real-estate / land... and for healthcare, it usually a good thing - especially if you want to be covered by insurance.

So, unless you find a nice small community where you can be nearly self-sufficient / live off the land, or are able to live like a nomad - you are likely going to need some form of legal identification at some point.

From: guest (vup) , 50 months, post #14
Maybe you could just tell them you're Amish and you never returned from Rumspringa or got kicked out a cult you were raised in or were raised in the forest like in that Jodie Foster movie Nell or were raised by talking wolves or that you traded your manhood to a sea-witch in exchange for some legs or...

Yeah, probably amnesia.

From: Air Gear , 48 months, post #15
People enter countries illegally and get ID documents all the time and get away with it in real life, even under the aegis of the all powerful Department of Homeland Security, so I guess there's no reason it couldn't be done in one of these scenarios too in a similar fashion.

From: cj , 48 months, post #16
Sure... but not all of them "get away with it". You'd have to find someone skilled, and the good ones are likely expensive.

From: guest , 36 months, post #17
Hopefully this can help you...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_creation

From: guest (AJ) , 36 months, post #18
That's why body swaps work best, you just slip in and everything legally is taken care of.

Talking about mutual swaps.

From: Air Gear , 36 months, post #19
Just wait until they start publicly analyzing our brain waves.

From: guest , 36 months, post #20
Well, even if it's not mutual swap, I don't think it would be much of a problem. What would the person do anyway? revealing themselves & get themselves institutionalized in some mental hospital?

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