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From: guest (Raj)
, 90 months, post #41 |
How does the parents thing works in Philippines version?
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From: guest
, 90 months, post #42 |
Lola (Chilean version) did deal with all of these. She was thrown
in jail once because of her lack of documents, and Grace had to
forge some, if I remember correctly. The parents do end up learning
the truth and become regular characters from that point onwards.
And Lalo does come back, when (temporarily) changed back and later
when they discover Pepa.
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From: Holly Dunn
, 90 months, post #43 |
I'm logging TG moments that interest me in Margosha for each
season, and will post them here when finished. There are 240
episodes. Wow, Season 3 is amazing after a ho hum Season 2. I
stopped watching early in Season two because it seemed so cliche.
The arc for Season 3 is she and Gosha are trying to change back,
while growing emotionally, but not sexually closer. Eventually a
marriage is forced based on their charade. the new Margo loses
Andrei, and rejects all other men until the very end. Season 2 and
the start of Season 3 deal with Andrei and their sexual
relationship.
There are 240 episodes. But I would like to post the earring
observation stuff separately. I'd love for someone to translate or
summarize these conversations in English.
Season 3 Episode 66—Margot is driving the car with Gosha in the
other seat. She keeps looking at him, and thinking of Andrei.
Later, over wine, Gosha pulls out diamond earrings and tries to get
her to wear them, but she refuses. Gosha touches her ears after
giving them to her and she swats his hands.
Season 3 Episode 82--Episode 82—She is on the floor going through
boxes of shoes. She finds a silver stiletto that she turns over
again and studies it. That was the one she wanted. She stumbles
upon the jewelry box with the earrings new Gosha gave her in
episode 66. Cue the same erotic music that they played in her
erotic fantasy sequences. She holds them up to her ears in front of
the mirror and the conversation they had when he gave them to her
replays in her mind. Gosha walks in and she hides the earrings
behind her back. Later she is trying on a wedding party dress and
shoes and jewelry with Anya. Anya picks up the earrings and
comments how beautiful they are. Margot still refuses to wear them.
I don’t know what they say exactly, but Anya asks her a question,
Margot answers Gosha, and Anya’s jaw drops. Anya chastises Margot
for not wearing them. Later in the episode, Margot enters the party
wearing the fancy dress and earrings. Entering the room, her hair
is tied back and she reaches her hand to just behind the ears,
emphasizing what she is wearing. People are gushing over how
beautiful she looks and she is glowing. Gosha comes up and comments
on the earrings and even touches her ear.
Season 3 Episode 83-- This continues into episode 83, with Margot
touching her hair near her ear again. At 27:07 Gosha kisses her
publicly in front of the wedding party. This angers her.
Anyway, even though Margot develops femininity in several stages,
the earrings were noticeable to me throughout. All of the women in
the office wear pronounced earrings. It ends up coinciding with her
final stages of self-acceptance.
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From: guest (Bud)
, 90 months, post #44 |
I still don't get the ending. I can understand a husband and a wife
still having sex after they swapped but total strangers is pushing
it in my opinion.
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From: guest (Fyeah)
, 90 months, post #45 |
Why not? They know their body inside out. It's perfect....
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From: Air Gear
, 90 months, post #46 |
Well, you don't stay total strangers forever, for starters. They
obviously got to know each other over time.
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From: Holly Dunn
, 90 months, post #47 |
@ Post #44 (Bud) -- Even though they don't get physical with their
love, they seem to connect on an emotional level from early on in
Season 3. It seems to be why Andrei breaks up with Margot. Andrei
really senses their connection early on in the 90 episode 3rd
season. Once the new Gosha goes to work at the magazine, Margot has
to cover for her lack of experience. When the new Gosha shows
interest in women, Margot gets really jealous and runs them off. It
is a very unique story arc, but very well done, imo. I wish I spoke
the language so I could understand what they are saying.
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From: Air Gear
, 90 months, post #48 |
To be honest, I actually find it a lot weirder in these scenarios
that the best friend in question wants to pursue a relationship
with someone that they know is their best male friend now stuffed
into someone else's body. Isn't that
one of the most odd things in this whole scenario?
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From: guest (Fyeah)
, 90 months, post #49 |
Air Gear,
Which version do you mean?
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From: Holly Dunn
, 90 months, post #50 |
According to the plot summaries, they think they have some chances
to change back, and they fail. So this keeps them together, and
perpetuating the fake stories. The new Margot told her real parents
that she was Gosha's fiance. So the parents force the marriage, but
they think they can change back before it happens.It's at the
marriage the realize they are soulmates, but there is a lot of
bonding they don't realize is happening through the 90 episodes.
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From: Air Gear
, 90 months, post #51 |
Most versions, to be honest. The Philippines at least have an
excuse as magic was involved in specifically flipping orientations.
The others are a bit fuzzier on that detail and Portugal's like ...
no thank you, still like girls.
Do you know the explanation as to how they extricate themselves
from the situation which is similar to the others where it starts
off as Margosha passing herself as Gosha's cousin because I do
remember the episode where there was some drama when her parents
find her original body's owner's ID documents ... which have quite
a different name on it.
(Don't you hate it when your parents go through your stuff?)
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From: guest (Fyeah)
, 90 months, post #52 |
Considering that it took more some dozens episode before she accept
a relationship with the male lead I think the transition of the
orientation is handled well in most situation though.
I do find it logical that she will end up liking man since the body
and the brain she in is of a heterosexual woman. At the same time I
also find it is logical as well for the woman in her old male body
to like to be bisexual considering that he has a the body of a
heterosexual man and has the memory of heterosexual woman. However,
while I accept both logic in isolation, they seems inconsistent if
put together. They should either both be heterosexual or both be
bisexual. To have different outcome for the two of them seem
inconsistent.
(I am referring mainly to the Argentinean version where the woman
in old Lalo body is shown to be a manwhore enjoying sex with both
sexes. I do know that in some versions the ftm character is shown
as liking girl only, which is consistent with the mtf behaviour)
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From: guest (Fyeah)
, 90 months, post #53 |
Holly,
That sounds weird because I thought Season 2 ended like the ending
of other versions in which the Lolas decided to choose to stay as a
girl? Why do Margo changes her mind in Season 3?
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From: cj
, 90 months, post #54 |
"... while I accept both logic in isolation, they seems
inconsistent if put together. They should either both be
heterosexual or both be bisexual. To have different outcome for the
two of them seem inconsistent."
While it may seem inconsistent, it might
be accurate to the actual condition of human sexuality on a
uniquely individual basis. Say for instance, that the man is wired
for a bit of bisexual interest, but he himself is rather averse to
such a thing (perhaps due to stout religious upbringing), but the
former woman is a bit more liberal in her tastes and desires. Then
the man's repressed interest in other men is simply no longer
repressed.
The same could be said of the new woman. The former man's
conservative nature, and disdain for homosexual relations could
carry over to the new woman, and affect her choices as well.
Just a thought.
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From: Air Gear
, 90 months, post #55 |
I don't know if I've ever bought that logic in and of itself. This
site is full of stories (and of people) who would if they had a
choice prefer to be something they are not.
These stories are the reverse, it's taking someone who's fine as
they are and turning them into something they are not.
Using the real life examples, people who start off at that point in
their lives, well, some of them go through quite a lot to do
something about that.
Obviously, what's different about this show is that in most
versions, magic is involved, so maybe there's some gradual mental
bending over time which is why it eventually gets to the point
where not only do they accept it, they don't want to change back.
Exceptions include the 'hard science' version from Portugal where
he resists it the entire time (which at least matches real life -
which is why the alternate ending where deciding not to change back
at the end is very incongruous), Chile, and India's an interesting
one in that a) decides to not change back b) Lord K does so anyway
c) after an awkward return to work where everyone looks at each
other in quite embarrassed fashion - they settle their differences
via a dance number (of course, it is India after all) before
driving off with his long-suffering best female friend who had to
put up with all of this as a couple, finally.
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From: Holly Dunn
, 90 months, post #56 |
Gender dysphoria is a medical condition, which is why insurance
pays for treatment of it. It makes sense that even though the
characters want their old lives back, if their brains changed along
with the rest of the body, odds would be small they would be truly
dysphoric. The storyline of gradual self acceptance makes a lot of
sense to me.
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From: Air Gear
, 90 months, post #57 |
Well, in the cases of the leads of these shows, it's clear that
their brains didn't change straight away in most of the cases if
their sports watching habits in the early days was anything to go
by for starters.
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From: Holly Dunn
, 90 months, post #58 |
Actually, I thought most of the Lalola's did a good job showing
they did change. By episode 9 of Margosha, for example, she was on
a date with a chick and couldn't kiss her. The attraction was gone.
And in the mid teen episode when she had her period, she also got
really emotional and cried. Sure, she kept her learned values and
tried desperately to hold on them, but eventually her mind took
over.
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From: guest (Bud)
, 90 months, post #59 |
In the Lalolas, I think it's safe to say that the sexual urges of
the "new" bodies win in the end. You can also say their "new"
brains too. The female body and brain clearly override Lalo's past
as a man and he eventually conforms to being a straight woman.
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From: Holly Dunn
, 90 months, post #60 |
Sure, Bud. And the the touching thing that makes it a great story
is that the character has to deal with the changes and come to
terms with themselves as a person on their own.
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