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From: cj
, 115 months, post #61 |
"Lily has a bad attitude about this whole thing, he/she can't even
join into a discussion without arguing with other members (Lady S)
and being demeaning and condescending (which are things I've
noticed today's "feminists" love to do)."
I've seen Lily provide many enlightening and/or thought-provoking
view in many discussions. I haven't seen her stray far from her
usual posts, which do sometimes seem to flirt a bit with
condescension, but never outright "attack" another poster. Of
course, I've been known to miss or misinterpret meaning before.
As for the arguments... I've seen nothing that breaks the rules.
And Lily certainly is entitled to voice her own views and opinions
on the things we discus here. As I've stated previously, she often
has a unique take on things and can add to the discussion.
I admit, that while I don't always agree with her views, opinions,
etc... I find some of Lily's contributions to be eye-opening or at
the very least, something to consider.
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From: guest (lily)
, 115 months, post #62 |
@cj I'm sorry if this next part feels a bit harsh... but I have to say
something - that question... and more-so, its repeat were actually
beginning to make me a bit uncomfortable... and it wasn't even
directed my way.
I am not trying to browbeat Me and Me Only. I agree that yours
seems a likely interpretation of his oringinal post; "do you know
of other stories like this" and/or "does anyone else like these
stories".
It is an interpretation supported by his comment in post #51 I like to read stories of how that is handled by her, and others
around her. If it is not in the story, I might add in what i like
as I read it..
But no one in the thread has really offered answers to either of
those implied questions (Lalola, in #44, comes closest),
I tried to infer what he was saying, or asking, from the way Me and
Only Me has tried to manage the conversation..
Me and only me thanked you for your contribution about women being
the secret power controlling history (Its a good idea, BTW. I am
going to suggest it at the next meeting. We will probably have to
get in line behind the Bilderbergers, Freemasons, and Elder's of
Zion...)
Me and Only Me scolded me, and guest #9, and he wrote in
frustration after posts by Luv to Switch Bods and Pear Shaped Man.
Those corrections don't seem to align with the implied questions in
the top post.
Sometimes there are no clear winners in a debate... especially over
ideologies, much less human musings and desires.
There is no debate here. I (and a few others) made the error or
responding to another poster's ahistorical and tendentious
provocations, instead of asking Me and Only Me for clarification
earlier in the thread.
I have been thinking about Me and Only Me's statement in #51 --
"... I might add in what Ii like as I read it."
I really cannot think of a story that follows the arc he describes:
A man transformed into a woman who falls into a traditional female
role because he feels he must be true to the noions he had as a
man.
There are plenty of humiliation, sissification, forced-femme, and
petticoat punishment stories that rely on the protagonist's
attitudes about sex roles -- but I can't think of a story where the
protagonist forces herself to become more "girly" because she
thinks of herself as a "failed man".
The usual trope for humiliation stories has the protagonist
whinging and cringing and saying "Why can't I stop being such a
wimp and tell her I don't want to wear this fetish maid's uniform
that shows of the twelve ruffles across the bottom of my pink satin
panties every time I bend over in my seven inch ballet slippers to
pick up the clothes she and my former boss leave lying on the floor
of what used to be OUR bedroom..."
Or there are the br'er rabbit stories: "Oh, why did I agree to
stand in for my sister in that play? I don't care how good I look
in this prom dress, or how popular I have become, or how nice my
breasts feel now that I've started taking those "special vitamins"
she gave me, or how dreamy-wonderful it was when Jeff kissed me and
let me put my hand on his (gasp) penis.. I MUST get back to being a
man!"
Not even the stories Me and Me Only cites are about what he would
like them to be about.
So I will ask: Can anyone think of a story where a man who believes
firmly in the superiority of men and the natural subservience of
women is transformed into a woman and takes on a subservient role
without additional interventions like hypnosis or brainwashing?
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From: guest (Me And Me Only)
, 115 months, post #63 |
Never said they did not have to an "outside influence", it can even
be another person, the new woman's new man "pushing" the new woman
into thoughts of "I deserve this", and other.
Julia Manchester is a great writer when it comes to a man
accepting/becoming the passive female partner.
"Dan wrapped her legs around Tracy's waist and her hands reached
behind his neck as she clung to her husband. She arched her back
and threw her head back as she felt her former wife enter her inner
sanctum. Tracy was standing upright with one muscular arm around
her former husband's waist and the other supporting her soft,
feminine bottom. Dan was such a tiny thing now that Tracy supported
her weight easily.
Tracy felt supremely powerful, and indeed, his 14 � inch biceps
were capable of supporting far more than Dan's mere 100 pounds.
Tracy had continued to grow and become more masculine in every way.
He had peaked at 6 feet 1 inch and 190 pounds, with a 43 inch chest
and a 33 � inch waist. His penis was now over 6 inches long and
still growing, and he was incredible virile � at least his feminine
spouse thought so.
Tracy loved being the man of the house, especially during times
like this, and he kept his little woman occupied almost every
night. It felt great to be in control, as he had always known it
would, and it was even better when he made Dan moan and scream as
he filled her completely. He also loved the sensation of her soft
breasts yielding to his hard, muscular chest, but he really loved
the sensation of his hard "erector set" pushing into Dan's soft,
moist vagina.
Dan gasped as Tracy thrust into her again. She hung on for dear
life as her former wife now had his way with her. The sensations
were incredibly intense for her � much more intense than when she
had been a man � especially with so many more erogenous zones.
Tracy felt huge inside her, and she was already learning some of
the tricks women had discovered centuries ago to keep their men
hard and prolong an orgasm. Her C cup breasts were pressed against
Tracy's chest, and the friction of each thrust kept her nipples
hard and her vagina tingling.
Dan felt another burst of intense pleasure, and the former man was
soon gasping as she went into sensory overload, on the verge of
climax. The passion soon overwhelmed the petite woman and she cried
out as her man drove her over the precipice of delight into the
realm of ecstasy. She felt Tracy penetrate to the core of her
being, possessing her, claiming her, and dominating her in a way
only a man could do.
Dan had never before experienced such total pleasure, and she
surrendered unconditionally to Tracy. Any tiny remnant of her
former masculine personality that may have been lurking in the
depths of her subconscious was extinguished like a match dropped
into the sea. The person that emerged from the encounter was
unquestionably feminine and completely devoted to her husband. She
was now an old fashioned girl who was happy to be a helpmate and
obey her husband the way women once did. She had already
relinquished her leadership to Tracy, and now she made a silent
pledge to be his devoted follower. She vowed to dress to please her
man, to look to him for guidance, and to make him happy.
Much later, during moments of reflection, Danielle realized that
she had never been happier."
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From: cj
, 115 months, post #64 |
Please try to keep posts appropriate for younger teenage eyes to
view (Things you'd be comfortable sharing with a 13 year-old).
You could have dropped that excerpt in a spoiler tag and put a
warning before it of "mature / adult content"
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From: guest (Lily)
, 115 months, post #65 |
The long excerpt is from Opposite Paths
Click to show spoiler
Ng gur raq bs juvpu vg vf uvagrq, ntnva, gung gurer vf n zntvpny
pnhfr sbe gur uhfonaq naq jvsr rkpunatvat traqref naq gur punatr va
uvf crefbanyvgl. Gung gur gur cebgntbavfg'f srznyr-gb-znyr fcbhfr
unq qryvorengryl genafsbezrq gurz obgu.
The transformed husband is depicted as becoming less sure of
himself as he changes, and he ends up as a "traditional" housewife
-- but I don't see the "failed as a man" theme? She doesn't even
seem to reflect much upon the change in her personality. What am I
missing?
The are lots of stories where the protagonist surrenders to femininity
. There are lots of stories where the protagonist gets the
manliness f*cked out of her.
I thought you were talking about something specific about the
reason that the protagonist decides to adopt a subservient role in
her relationship with a man.
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From: guest (Me And Me Only)
, 115 months, post #66 |
Pardon cj, was not thinking about that.
Lily thanks for the story link.
There are a lot of stories that cover my likes in relation to the
conversation. Had to title it something, and since I was saying why
I would like to have seen more in a story like "Under The Moons Of
Eden", I titled it as I did.
Think the main problem here is I was just making comment about
stories, ideas, or what I would like to see in them and folks were
reading to much into it from the title.
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From: Lady Sekhmet
, 115 months, post #67 |
Wow... I don't know why I never thought of this... but there is a
tale that quite exactly fits this subject that I myself entered
into the catalog over 10 years ago (where has the time gone to?)
This is the catalog entry
Synopsis:
Tiresias is a young proud warrior, magnificently he walks the
streets of Thebes, admired by all, loved by all, the city bends to
his vanity and his whims . But some also the envy this Adonis who
seems to have everything that the gods can offer. Unjustly accused
of raping one of the priestesses of Athena, Tiresias is then
condemned by the goddess to become a woman until he comes to truly
feel love for someone else ...
I dug around in my library and sure enough, I still have both
hardcopy books. They're in french but if someone wants them I can
probably pass them on. The artwork is exceptional and the storyline
engaging.
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From: guest (lily)
, 115 months, post #68 |
Think the main problem here is I was just making comment about
stories, ideas, or what I would like to see in them and folks were
reading to much into it from the title.
It was a provocative combination of words, to be sure. At the risk
of making a trusted user uncomfortable again -- I still don't
understand what you were trying to say, or what it was you wanted
to talk about. Was it really just an announcement that you like
stories where the male-turned-female takes on a subservient role in
a sexual relationship with a man?
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From: Lady Sekhmet
, 115 months, post #69 |
It certainly was a provocative title, and the discussions it
provoked were quite enjoyable (at least to me). But reading the
entire initial post and in light of further clarifications it
certainly obvious that they were just expressing a specific TG
fiction motif that they enjoyed. Nothing more, nothing less.
The expanded discussion had more to do with certain users who have
strong and seemingly diametrically opposed views of the world :)
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From: cj
, 115 months, post #70 |
"At the risk of making a trusted user uncomfortable again..."
After I voiced my discomfort, it seems that everyone has paused to
take a deep breath, and then approached the subject with a bit more
clarity and patience... more... refinement.
Thank you.
"... expanded discussion had more to do with... strong and
seemingly diametrically opposed views..."
Some of the best discussions often do. :-)
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From: guest (Jayzie)
, 115 months, post #71 |
Cj, I really don't care all that much. I've been called worse.
I full heartedly believe that in the tg realm of "body swap
fantasies" I'm a very mild, equalistic-minded person.
I've read so many people on here going on and on about how they'd
love to be dominated by men, raped, or subjugated. Even dismembered
or stealing someone's life by turning them into a suit with a
zipper. I mean that's just sadistic. Yet I'm the sexist? lol thats
funny.
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From: guest (Jayzie)
, 115 months, post #72 |
Also, I never said Lily didn't have points about things here and
there. Some of them seem to be borderline radical though, but
that's my opinion.
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From: cj
, 115 months, post #73 |
Jayzie. Most of your post was within the guidelines... You just had
that one, short sentence, at the beginning of your post that was
nothing more than an "attack" - so it was snipped.
While we're all adults and I'm sure it could have been left up
there - BUT I have to be fair and treat everyone equally. I'd have
done the same with anybody else (even my own posts if necessary).
We all flub up once in awhile. Don't sweat it man. :-)
I think out of us old-timers, Paul is the only one I haven't
"removed" and/or "snipped" a post from.
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From: guest
, 85 months, post #74 |
agree with OP
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From: guest (ShouldBeBeverly)
, 64 months, post #75 |
Just found this conversation and can honestly say that I have
always longed to be a dominated, passive/submissive female.
That I would gladly give up this put on me not by my choice male
body, and role in society. It would not bother me to be seen as the
smaller, weaker vessel, and treated as such.
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