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A Female Is A Failed Male [Mature Content]
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From: cj , 54 months, post #61
"Lily has a bad attitude about this whole thing, he/she can't even join into a discussion without arguing with other members (Lady S) and being demeaning and condescending (which are things I've noticed today's "feminists" love to do)."

I've seen Lily provide many enlightening and/or thought-provoking view in many discussions. I haven't seen her stray far from her usual posts, which do sometimes seem to flirt a bit with condescension, but never outright "attack" another poster. Of course, I've been known to miss or misinterpret meaning before.

As for the arguments... I've seen nothing that breaks the rules. And Lily certainly is entitled to voice her own views and opinions on the things we discus here. As I've stated previously, she often has a unique take on things and can add to the discussion.

I admit, that while I don't always agree with her views, opinions, etc... I find some of Lily's contributions to be eye-opening or at the very least, something to consider.

From: guest (lily) , 54 months, post #62
@cj I'm sorry if this next part feels a bit harsh... but I have to say something - that question... and more-so, its repeat were actually beginning to make me a bit uncomfortable... and it wasn't even directed my way.

I am not trying to browbeat Me and Me Only. I agree that yours seems a likely interpretation of his oringinal post; "do you know of other stories like this" and/or "does anyone else like these stories".

It is an interpretation supported by his comment in post #51 I like to read stories of how that is handled by her, and others around her. If it is not in the story, I might add in what i like as I read it..

But no one in the thread has really offered answers to either of those implied questions (Lalola, in #44, comes closest),

I tried to infer what he was saying, or asking, from the way Me and Only Me has tried to manage the conversation..

Me and only me thanked you for your contribution about women being the secret power controlling history (Its a good idea, BTW. I am going to suggest it at the next meeting. We will probably have to get in line behind the Bilderbergers, Freemasons, and Elder's of Zion...)

Me and Only Me scolded me, and guest #9, and he wrote in frustration after posts by Luv to Switch Bods and Pear Shaped Man.

Those corrections don't seem to align with the implied questions in the top post.

Sometimes there are no clear winners in a debate... especially over ideologies, much less human musings and desires.

There is no debate here. I (and a few others) made the error or responding to another poster's ahistorical and tendentious provocations, instead of asking Me and Only Me for clarification earlier in the thread.

I have been thinking about Me and Only Me's statement in #51 -- "... I might add in what Ii like as I read it."

I really cannot think of a story that follows the arc he describes: A man transformed into a woman who falls into a traditional female role because he feels he must be true to the noions he had as a man.

There are plenty of humiliation, sissification, forced-femme, and petticoat punishment stories that rely on the protagonist's attitudes about sex roles -- but I can't think of a story where the protagonist forces herself to become more "girly" because she thinks of herself as a "failed man".

The usual trope for humiliation stories has the protagonist whinging and cringing and saying "Why can't I stop being such a wimp and tell her I don't want to wear this fetish maid's uniform that shows of the twelve ruffles across the bottom of my pink satin panties every time I bend over in my seven inch ballet slippers to pick up the clothes she and my former boss leave lying on the floor of what used to be OUR bedroom..."

Or there are the br'er rabbit stories: "Oh, why did I agree to stand in for my sister in that play? I don't care how good I look in this prom dress, or how popular I have become, or how nice my breasts feel now that I've started taking those "special vitamins" she gave me, or how dreamy-wonderful it was when Jeff kissed me and let me put my hand on his (gasp) penis.. I MUST get back to being a man!"

Not even the stories Me and Me Only cites are about what he would like them to be about.

So I will ask: Can anyone think of a story where a man who believes firmly in the superiority of men and the natural subservience of women is transformed into a woman and takes on a subservient role without additional interventions like hypnosis or brainwashing?

From: guest (Me And Me Only) , 54 months, post #63
Never said they did not have to an "outside influence", it can even be another person, the new woman's new man "pushing" the new woman into thoughts of "I deserve this", and other.

Julia Manchester is a great writer when it comes to a man accepting/becoming the passive female partner.

"Dan wrapped her legs around Tracy's waist and her hands reached behind his neck as she clung to her husband. She arched her back and threw her head back as she felt her former wife enter her inner sanctum. Tracy was standing upright with one muscular arm around her former husband's waist and the other supporting her soft, feminine bottom. Dan was such a tiny thing now that Tracy supported her weight easily.

Tracy felt supremely powerful, and indeed, his 14 � inch biceps were capable of supporting far more than Dan's mere 100 pounds. Tracy had continued to grow and become more masculine in every way. He had peaked at 6 feet 1 inch and 190 pounds, with a 43 inch chest and a 33 � inch waist. His penis was now over 6 inches long and still growing, and he was incredible virile � at least his feminine spouse thought so.

Tracy loved being the man of the house, especially during times like this, and he kept his little woman occupied almost every night. It felt great to be in control, as he had always known it would, and it was even better when he made Dan moan and scream as he filled her completely. He also loved the sensation of her soft breasts yielding to his hard, muscular chest, but he really loved the sensation of his hard "erector set" pushing into Dan's soft, moist vagina.

Dan gasped as Tracy thrust into her again. She hung on for dear life as her former wife now had his way with her. The sensations were incredibly intense for her � much more intense than when she had been a man � especially with so many more erogenous zones. Tracy felt huge inside her, and she was already learning some of the tricks women had discovered centuries ago to keep their men hard and prolong an orgasm. Her C cup breasts were pressed against Tracy's chest, and the friction of each thrust kept her nipples hard and her vagina tingling.

Dan felt another burst of intense pleasure, and the former man was soon gasping as she went into sensory overload, on the verge of climax. The passion soon overwhelmed the petite woman and she cried out as her man drove her over the precipice of delight into the realm of ecstasy. She felt Tracy penetrate to the core of her being, possessing her, claiming her, and dominating her in a way only a man could do.

Dan had never before experienced such total pleasure, and she surrendered unconditionally to Tracy. Any tiny remnant of her former masculine personality that may have been lurking in the depths of her subconscious was extinguished like a match dropped into the sea. The person that emerged from the encounter was unquestionably feminine and completely devoted to her husband. She was now an old fashioned girl who was happy to be a helpmate and obey her husband the way women once did. She had already relinquished her leadership to Tracy, and now she made a silent pledge to be his devoted follower. She vowed to dress to please her man, to look to him for guidance, and to make him happy.

Much later, during moments of reflection, Danielle realized that she had never been happier."

From: cj , 54 months, post #64
Please try to keep posts appropriate for younger teenage eyes to view (Things you'd be comfortable sharing with a 13 year-old).

You could have dropped that excerpt in a spoiler tag and put a warning before it of "mature / adult content"

From: guest (Lily) , 54 months, post #65
The long excerpt is from Opposite Paths

Click to show spoiler
Ng gur raq bs juvpu vg vf uvagrq, ntnva, gung gurer vf n zntvpny pnhfr sbe gur uhfonaq naq jvsr rkpunatvat traqref naq gur punatr va uvf crefbanyvgl. Gung gur gur cebgntbavfg'f srznyr-gb-znyr fcbhfr unq qryvorengryl genafsbezrq gurz obgu.

The transformed husband is depicted as becoming less sure of himself as he changes, and he ends up as a "traditional" housewife -- but I don't see the "failed as a man" theme? She doesn't even seem to reflect much upon the change in her personality. What am I missing?

The are lots of stories where the protagonist surrenders to femininity . There are lots of stories where the protagonist gets the manliness f*cked out of her.

I thought you were talking about something specific about the reason that the protagonist decides to adopt a subservient role in her relationship with a man.

From: guest (Me And Me Only) , 54 months, post #66
Pardon cj, was not thinking about that.

Lily thanks for the story link.

There are a lot of stories that cover my likes in relation to the conversation. Had to title it something, and since I was saying why I would like to have seen more in a story like "Under The Moons Of Eden", I titled it as I did.

Think the main problem here is I was just making comment about stories, ideas, or what I would like to see in them and folks were reading to much into it from the title.

From: Lady Sekhmet , 54 months, post #67
Wow... I don't know why I never thought of this... but there is a tale that quite exactly fits this subject that I myself entered into the catalog over 10 years ago (where has the time gone to?)

This is the catalog entry

Synopsis:
Tiresias is a young proud warrior, magnificently he walks the streets of Thebes, admired by all, loved by all, the city bends to his vanity and his whims . But some also the envy this Adonis who seems to have everything that the gods can offer. Unjustly accused of raping one of the priestesses of Athena, Tiresias is then condemned by the goddess to become a woman until he comes to truly feel love for someone else ...

I dug around in my library and sure enough, I still have both hardcopy books. They're in french but if someone wants them I can probably pass them on. The artwork is exceptional and the storyline engaging.

From: guest (lily) , 54 months, post #68
Think the main problem here is I was just making comment about stories, ideas, or what I would like to see in them and folks were reading to much into it from the title.

It was a provocative combination of words, to be sure. At the risk of making a trusted user uncomfortable again -- I still don't understand what you were trying to say, or what it was you wanted to talk about. Was it really just an announcement that you like stories where the male-turned-female takes on a subservient role in a sexual relationship with a man?

From: Lady Sekhmet , 54 months, post #69
It certainly was a provocative title, and the discussions it provoked were quite enjoyable (at least to me). But reading the entire initial post and in light of further clarifications it certainly obvious that they were just expressing a specific TG fiction motif that they enjoyed. Nothing more, nothing less.

The expanded discussion had more to do with certain users who have strong and seemingly diametrically opposed views of the world :)

From: cj , 54 months, post #70
"At the risk of making a trusted user uncomfortable again..."

After I voiced my discomfort, it seems that everyone has paused to take a deep breath, and then approached the subject with a bit more clarity and patience... more... refinement.

Thank you.


"... expanded discussion had more to do with... strong and seemingly diametrically opposed views..."

Some of the best discussions often do. :-)

From: guest (Jayzie) , 54 months, post #71
Cj, I really don't care all that much. I've been called worse.

I full heartedly believe that in the tg realm of "body swap fantasies" I'm a very mild, equalistic-minded person.
I've read so many people on here going on and on about how they'd love to be dominated by men, raped, or subjugated. Even dismembered or stealing someone's life by turning them into a suit with a zipper. I mean that's just sadistic. Yet I'm the sexist? lol thats funny.



From: guest (Jayzie) , 54 months, post #72
Also, I never said Lily didn't have points about things here and there. Some of them seem to be borderline radical though, but that's my opinion.



From: cj , 54 months, post #73
Jayzie. Most of your post was within the guidelines... You just had that one, short sentence, at the beginning of your post that was nothing more than an "attack" - so it was snipped.

While we're all adults and I'm sure it could have been left up there - BUT I have to be fair and treat everyone equally. I'd have done the same with anybody else (even my own posts if necessary).

We all flub up once in awhile. Don't sweat it man. :-)

I think out of us old-timers, Paul is the only one I haven't "removed" and/or "snipped" a post from.

From: guest , 23 months, post #74
agree with OP

From: guest (ShouldBeBeverly) , 2 months, post #75
Just found this conversation and can honestly say that I have always longed to be a dominated, passive/submissive female.

That I would gladly give up this put on me not by my choice male body, and role in society. It would not bother me to be seen as the smaller, weaker vessel, and treated as such.

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