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SheZow
Size, Gender | | |
A new cartoon premiering on The Hub on June 1, 2013. A boy becomes a superhero when he inherits a ring from his deceased aunt. The catch is the ring was meant for a female so he becomes a female superhero named SheZow.
SheZow has super-strength and super-speed; a "sonic scream," and SheZow's han ...more |
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From: guest (da Doctah)
, 143 months, post #21 |
I've mentioned this precedent before, but isn't SheZow (which I
haven't yet seen) in the same category (whatever that properly is)
as Moldiver? There too, a costume transformation makes the male
secret identity appear to be a super-powered female, but with some
delving into the details, it seems his actual gender never really
changes and all the super powers are contained in the suit.
Compare this with the recent story arc of The Venture Brothers
where Hank Venture takes to wearing the female body armor of the
defunct character Destiny, complete with breasts, but it's never
suggested even for a moment that he's actually become a woman. When
he's finally forced to get rid of it, we discover that relying on
the armor's strength enhancement has led to his own muscles
atrophying. He's been "transformed", all right--into someone
without the strength to stand and walk on his own until he goes
through some physical rehab.
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From: sexualitylab
, 143 months, post #22 |
I think instead of trying to find loopholes in the guidelines or
shoehorning the show into fitting them, we should just take SheZow
face value. For anyone who watches the show without looking into
all of the commentary by the creator or reading into it very
deeply, a transformation has occurred, from a boy named Guy Hamden
to a superheroine named SheZow. A mini transformation sequence even
takes place when he does become SheZow. The fact that he appears as
the opposite gender adds a lot of appeal and is the reason why it's
so popular and intriguing (so to speak). I think, if anything, that
gives it precedence, since many users on here are TG fans.
I would not bat an eye if I saw the entry on here, and in fact, I'm
glad it showed up as an entry on here because it's the reason I
found the show, and I've quite enjoyed it. To say that this leads
to some slippery slope that we will have to allow crossdressing
entries is ridiculous - the premise of the show is in no way about
crossdressing, but it's about an otherwise "normal" boy becoming
(i.e., transforming into) a female superheroine.
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From: paul
, 143 months, post #23 |
Currently the site does not include the gaining or losing of
powers. Although I have considered adding it in the past. A super
hero like The Thing would be acceptable as a monstrous
transformation under the current site rules, but Spiderman would
not be.
If Shezow appears to be a transformation to viewers or characters,
it is acceptable for inclusion.
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From: cj
, 143 months, post #24 |
Thank you Paul.
Now... who HAS seen this show?
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From: guest (lily)
, 143 months, post #25 |
@sexulaitylab #17
You misunderstood Paul's question
>>Do other characters in the show watching him think he has
changed into a girl?
>
>Yes, and not just a girl, but a superheroine named SheZow.
No. There are characters who think that Guy is the original Shezow,
and characters who know his secret identity as Guy. There is no one
who beleives that Guy has been transformed into Shezow.
>>Does the viewing audience think mistakenly that he has
transformed?
>
>Yes, without the clarity from its creator, it appears that he
has become SheZow in >both form and dress.
No. The whole point of the show is that the audience is in on the
drag act.
@ da Doctah #11
The comparison to Moldiver is apt, but I would argue it the
opposite way. When the malfunctioning/hacked Mol unit makes Hiorshi
appear as the magical-girl version Moldiver, or makes Mirai appear
as the masculine Captain Tokyo, it appears as a physical
transformation to characters in the show AND to the audience. The
two Mol Unit personae as drawn as unambiguously male and female.
Shezow is drawn to look like Guy in costume.
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From: guest (Beastwithin)
, 143 months, post #26 |
I found out about this show due to it's original inclusion on the
site. I watched the first episode and yes I thought it was a
transformation at first. A poorly done transformation, with the
lame voice doesn't change aspect, but I transformation non the
less. It was after reading the first discusion topic that I found
out it was just crossdressing. So no, the entire audience is not in
on the drag act.
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From: Alias
, 143 months, post #27 |
I was able to locate a site that has at least 8 episodes of Shezow
online, if anyone wants to see them. I posted the link a while back
on the old Shezow thread but I'm not sure if that link breaks the
rules on direct links to copyrighted material.
The site is http://www.watchcartoononline.com/ so if I can get a
moderator's yay/nay on that site, it'd be appreciated. If nay,
please edit it out.
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From: cj
, 143 months, post #28 |
watchcartoononline.com is similar to our own site in that it
somewhat catalogs cartoons. It approaches Youtube in that it caters
video - but it differs in that they only link to the videos, they
do not host the videos.
I
believe
that since this primarily a video streaming site, and as long as
you don't post deep links for that site, or link to the content
directly - then you are steering clear enough away from getting us
in any type of trouble... while still respecting Paul's wishes to
keep this site from becoming a "portal for copyright infringement".
This, of course, is just my opinion.
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From: Holly Dunn
, 143 months, post #29 |
I TiVo'ed and watched parts of the first episode some weeks ago,
but mostly fast-forwarded through it.
I recorded another episode Saturday and tried to watch more
carefully.
In Shezow, all of the characters other than his close confidants
think he is a girl. He definitely looks like a girl.
That being said, if you put long hair and a dress on any child, it
will is also very convincing. And his voice, which is in the early
stages of puberty, sounds like a guy at all times. Another argument
against inclusion is that there are plenty of crossdressing work
where everyone is fooled. Ever see the late 1970's sitcom "Bosom
Buddies" starring a young Tom Hanks? He and his roommate have the
whole "Women Only" apartment building fooled so that they live
there full time. But there is no way they would live there full
time.
In Shezow, he transforms into the superhero costume due to a ring.
And like Batman, all of his powers are gadget based. I haven't seen
him do anything that isn't attributable to the ring or his toolbox.
The more you watch it, the more the show seems like crossdressing.
That is why I didn't watch carefully the first time. But the
"world" he lives in sees him as Shezow and thinks he is a woman.
Therefore it could meet Paul's standards for inclusion on that fact
alone.
In my first post on this subject, I didn't object to its
classification of a gender transformation. But I asked that if
included, that the admins make it clear as to what it is
(convincing crossdressing). If included, maybe state that this is a
grey area with an appearance of transformation, but is on the
borderline for inclusion because it is a disguise.
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From: guest (lily)
, 143 months, post #30 |
@Holly Dunn # 29
"But the "world" he lives in sees him as Shezow and thinks he is a
woman. Therefore it could meet Paul's standards for inclusion on
that fact alone."
@Paul # 23
"If Shezow appears to be a transformation
to viewers or characters, it is acceptable for inclusion."
The audience KNOWS that it is not a transformation. It is both
explicit (it is the whole of the plot) and implicit in the way the
character is drawn and voiced.
Characters in-show are either unaware of Guy's alter ego and
beleive they are seeing the original Shezow or they know that Guy
is a boy in Shezow's gear. So far, no character in the show
believes that Guy transforms into a woman when he impersonates
Shezow.
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From: guest (The searcher)
, 143 months, post #31 |
if the viewers were NOT 'in on it' it would be a show about the
female superheroine shezow as the world they exist in sees him as
shezow whilst in action. Viewers are almost always 'in on it'. We
know batman is bruce wayne, and Bruce banner is the Hulk, for
example.
What WE know is irrelevant. The world perceives shezow as a female.
He appears to be his old self to us, and he thinks he is the same.
But is he? I don't recall him claiming he explored under the
costume. Unless we see the X rated version with him taking off his
clothes to see if the differences are truly just a projected image
or if he has feminine genitals under the costume, we may not know
for certain.
The creator might not want to go there for a while in his
interviews. He pushed the envelope just to get it into the public
viewing! Let each viewer decide for him/herself!
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From: paul
, 143 months, post #32 |
There are lots of borderline cases on the site. Each of them has to
warrant inclusion based on being a transformation in some way. If
the other characters in the world think he is a female superhero
when in fact he is a boy, that by itself isn't grounds for
inclusion. If it were, we would have to accept a large amount of
not only cross dressing but disguises in general. For example if
James Bond went undercover as an arms dealers. Woudl it because he
is being perceived as someone he is not. For Shezow to be
acceptable, there must be some type of transformation.
In the anime Moldiver, the hero inadvertently activates his suite
using a female form. The show clearly states this is just the
appearance of the suite. But it appears to the veiwer the same as
if he had turned into a female superhero. It is very subjective and
could be argued that it doesn't count. If someone did want to argue
for its removal, the argument would have to be that it doesn't look
like a transformation.
The same is true for Shezow. When he changes into a superhero, does
it look like a transformation or a changes of clothes? Did he think
he changed into a girl the first time he used the ring? Did someone
watching him change think he changed into girl? Is there a villain
in the show that knows his true identity and thinks hes a girl when
hes a superhero? Or something else that leads someone to think a
transformation has happened?
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From: Holly Dunn
, 143 months, post #33 |
Paul-- I'll try to answer your questions as directly as I can---
He's a kid wearing something similar to a Batgirl costume. He never
thinks he's a girl and there are even promos where he is wearing
the costume and states he is a guy. They make it a point in all the
marketing material to call him crossdressed or a guy in a costume.
The religious folks call him a transexual superhero, but he is just
crossdressed. Apparently there is a bid difference between a
costume and transformation to certain moralists. When in costume
everyone who doesn't know him thinks he is a woman named Shezow. No
one ever sees him change. He changes off-screen or a cloud of smoke
appears. We are only a few episodes in and I have only watched a
couple, but so far no villain I know of knows his true identity.
It's a very convincing disguise, but it is a disguise. Since he's a
kid, he doesn't have major male or female secondary
characteristics. But his voice is that of a boy in puberty.
This is from an unofficial source, edgeboston.com. But it is
thorough.
"Guy quickly realizes the ring is hardwired for women, and dresses
the wearer the same way, regardless of gender. After the initial
shock, Guy/SheZow finds that in addition to SheZow�s superpowers,
he has at his fingertips the use of supercomputer Sheila, and a
vast array of weapons including a light saber, boomerang and
uber-slick car. "
http://www.edgeboston.com/news/national/features//145592/shezow,_the_transgender_heroine_that_isn%E2%80%99t
(couldn't get the hyperlink to work)
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From: cj
, 143 months, post #34 |
Holly, your link:
http://www.edgeboston.com/news/national/features//145592/shezow,_the_transgender_heroine_that_isn't
:-)
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From: guest (The searcher)
, 143 months, post #35 |
the voice as evidence doesn't matter by itself. many transforms
have odd voice results.
and then there is the apparently eternal question...
if a boy magically changes into a girl superhero and says he is a
boy but offers no proof of it, is he in denial or is he telling the
truth.
without any evidence one way or another, which may come in later
episodes, we will have to wait and see. For now it should be
allowed, perhaps with a note that it is questionable as a
transformation.
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From: Holly Dunn
, 143 months, post #36 |
@ guest (The Searcher) who said, "without any evidence one way or
another... we will have to wait and see."
There is emperical evidence as the creator, Obie Scott Wade, is on
record explaining there is no gender change.
"That's actually one bit of misfinormation floating around. In
Ramna 1/2, Ranma actually changes gender, Guy in SheZow doesn't.
He's still a boy, just trapped in an outrageously flamboyant
superhero costume designed for a woman."
http//www.newsarama.com/18025-delving-into-she-zow-the-cross-dressing-superhero-animated-series.html
The grey area, IMO, is whether the crossdressing is so convincing
that meets the standards of some of the illusion-type entries. But
there is no dispute that it is crossdressing. And every
"super-power" he has is gadget or ring based. Though I was on the
fence about inclusion, the preponderance of evidence points
undeniably towards no transformation.
(Note: When I tried to use the link in the "preview" window before
posting, the link didn't work. Not sure what I am doing wrong.
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From: guest
, 143 months, post #37 |
As more than a few have noted, when Guy becomes SheZow (i.e.,
transforms into SheZow, because what other word would you use?),
it's convincingly a transformation. Without the creator Obie Scott
Wade telling us otherwise, there's not much to go on that it isn't
a transformation (although I'm still arguing it's a transformation
even if there is no physical gender change) except that he keeps
his voice. Even so, there were a few people in this thread,
including myself (and I'm willing to bet many others, including
kids to whom this show is targeted), who thought this was a
complete transformation. I don't see why just because a few of you
didn't think so at first, that means the audience unanimously
doesn't either. Also, some of his super-powers are super-powers and
not just gadgets... he has to have the SheZow hair (which is a
physical transformation, I might add) in order to do his super
scream and have super strength.
I'm also just confused by the fact that there is this much
resistance to including SheZow as an entry. There are clearly folks
who believe it counts, want it in, and have benefited from its
inclusion because they discovered a show that they enjoy. Why are
people against it? Are they worried about a slippery slope, or is
there something about crossdressing that is to be avoided? Is it
just the principle of the matter?
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From: paul
, 143 months, post #38 |
The point that I have tried to clarify is that this site is about
(physical) transformations that affect people. Cross dressing would
only count if was part of a transformation. For example in the 1967
movie Bedazzled, Dudley Moore is turned into nun. The female
version is played by the same actor in drag, but it counts because
the movie clearly states that he has turned into a woman. From what
I've on this thread, I would say that Shezow is acceptable because
some of the people watching the show thought it might be a
transformation. The important part. is that it is a transformation,
or appears to be one. The same case is made for Quantum Leap.
I know their are people that view cross dressing by itself as
transformative. But I do not. If cross dressing counted, we would
have to include a wide range of disguises. Curly from the Three
Stooges getting stuck in a gorilla costume would count under those
rules.
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From: guest (lily)
, 143 months, post #39 |
@Paul #38
From what I've on this thread, I would say that Shezow is
acceptable because some of the people watching the show thought it
might be a transformation.
In order to think that Guy's impersonation of Shezow is an actual
physical transformation you have to miss the parts of the show
where it is clearly stated that it is NOT a physical transformation
and ignore the fact that he is drawn as male-bodied (per the
stylistic conventions of the show).
Not to be argumentative, but we could just as well argue that
someone who tuned into the middle of an episode of Bosom Buddies
might think that they were seeing a poorly executed portrayal of a
physical transformation.
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From: cj
, 143 months, post #40 |
After watching the second part "Cold Finger" of the first episode
pair, I am going to consider this a transformation also. At the end
of the episode, the computer even goes so far as to tell us a
"Shecret" - "Guy transforms into SheZow two different ways" Key
word, TRANSFORMS.
I saw no parts of the first episode pair that indicated or flat-out
explained that this was simply a costume or anything other than an
actual transformation. I understand that the creator has explained
it to be an illusion of some sort (or simply cross-dressing), but
at this time there is no explanation of that - and it appears to be
a transformation from male to female (other than the voice). The
characters in the show also seem to accept that SheZow (Guy as
SheZow) is a girl/woman (using the female pronouns "she" and "her"
for instance), whereas we all see Guy as male.
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