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TG with an actual plot
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From: JayGee , 153 months, post #21

Jack Chalker is a very good and mainstream writer. Transformation and TG themes come up in a lot of his work.

From: guest (Stu Stanley) , 153 months, post #22

Thanks everyone!

From: guest (CAS) , 153 months, post #23

Let me start off with full disclosure: I am the author of A WOMAN'S PASSION and earn royalties when people buy it.

There is another long string of critiques of my novel that you can, if you choose, to read separately.

Several readers on Metamorphose have called it overrated.

Many more have expressed their enjoyment of it. (TheSaint, one of the people to post in this string was also one of the very earliest supporters of my novel … and I thank him again for that.)

The reason I'm posting here is to acknowledge that my reasons for writing the novel in the first place came out of the same kind of frustrations as that expressed by the originator of this string, Stu Stanley ... and indicate how I may have hurt my own intentions.

Just about everybody who has criticized the novel has done so for variations on the same reason: there are several scenes that are tangential and (in an absolute no-no in most fiction) do nothing much to move the plot forward.

Reflecting on that criticism, I have had to admit to myself that they are right.

At some, not entirely conscious level, as I wrote the novel, I was working my way through a checklist of "experiences" that usually only women have … and finding a way to make sure to get into the plot a scene that makes sure that my protagonist (a man who has the opportunity to experience life as a woman) has the opportunity to have those experiences.

Several of those experiences are specific to physical body change; but if that is all that is of interest to you, there are certainly many stories in which those are denser in the tale.

Several of those experiences are romantic, and the book's climax is quite sexual; but it is not a good book for you if you really just want "the good parts."

In short then, I agree that, without full intention, I sacrificed some plot momentum in favor of gender metamorphosis experiences, even very mundane ones.

Okay, if you are a man, you might very well like the experience of standing in the women's locker room with a room full of half naked girls and women waiting for the next available shower; but you also might find it quite boring to spend an afternoon baking cookies and gossiping in a kitchen full of women.

You might get impatient being among a roomful of women discussing a forthcoming wedding or writing a long letter to your sister about relationships; but you may also be surprised how your own adrenaline may rise as a you read a scene in which there are men who become a believable sexual threat to you.

The checklist goes on: holding a baby in a rocking chair, the first time you really have no choice but to sit down to pee, trying on heels in a shoe store, sitting there in your pretty summer dress and then sliding over on a pick-up truck's bench seat to be very close to your good-looking date in his pressed jeans, the first time a boy holds your hand in public, etc., etc..

There are literally dozens of these in the book. Some do, I guess, interrupt the plot's momentum a bit … but not, I think, disastrously.

And because throughout the novel, Alan is always there somewhere inside Allison, they are always, always about metamorphosis.

Thanks, Stu, for starting this string, and to those who have come up with suggestions. I haven't read several of the suggested stories … but I will now!

Alan Barrie

From: D.A.W. , 153 months, post #24

I don't think you can appease everyone, Alan. I for one enjoyed 'A Woman's Passion'.

From: dis_guise , 153 months, post #25

Just bought A Woman's Passion for Kindle and I'm reading it on my phone. So far it reads like some of the better stuff on FictionMania, and has some of the same problems, starting with:

SEAGOON: Eccles, hand me that special piano-leg saw you just happen to be carrying!

-- The Goon Show

Protagonist just happens to be 5'7", just the right height for a tallish woman, and that's part of a cluster of useful pre-conditions. Okay, okay, arguably there couldn't be ANY story of this kind without such things just happening to fall neatly into place, but it comes across as a little too pat, and almost comical. Sorry. I'm sure I've done worse in my own stories (see anything by Blot on FictionMania).

Now I'm slogging through the first slough of girl-clothing fun. It's a lot like the dwelling-on-clothes-ad-nauseam bits that one gets even in some pretty good FictionMania stories: some readers savor every tiny bit of that exercise, while others (like me) find it a chore to read. Maybe the author's catering to his market. Maybe this is tongue in cheek. Maybe...

A few typos or malapropisms such as "color" for "collar": how the heck did those get through the editing? (Okay, some get through my editing of my stories, but this is a product for sale, not a freebie.)

The opening pages were very good, though, and I suspect I'll end up liking the book over all. Worth the money? Maybe. I'll see.

From: Anima , 153 months, post #26

I haven't gotten around to reading it but the description for The Joe Bates Saga sounds like it would fit what you're looking for Stu.

"The Bates Saga is one of a handful of TG Fiction where the characters act like real people caught in a situation that they have no control of. But unlike other TG Fiction, the story does NOT revolve around either a punishment agenda, or a sexual theme."

http://www.sapphireplace.com/joe_bates/bates.html

From: Guyote , 153 months, post #27

@ Mr Ram

Thanks. Ordered his first book, Midnight at the Well of Souls, off've amazon. Would you suggest reading through the entire Well of Soul series first? Any other series of his you'd reccomend?

Shame the guy's fallen out of print.

From: Dale Ribbons , 153 months, post #28

If you can find them, I'd recommend 'The Identity Matrix' or 'Downtiming The Night Side'. Maybe you can check out used bookstores in your area. That's where I found my copies.

From: Mr. Ram , 153 months, post #29

Chalker's well of souls series is very good, you might enjoy his Dancing Gods books too.

Mr. Ram

From: guest (TheSaint) , 153 months, post #30

The "The Identity Matrix" is pretty good. It's got more alien conspiracy than TG but for a mainstream book the TG is solid.

The Joe Bates saga is still one of my favorites because of the great physical details and realistic depiction. I know some people argue that a real person in that situation wouldn't immediately go shopping but Joe is described as a practical engineer that it makes sense that's exactly what he would do. It's a shame it was never properly finished.

And I know everybody who sees me post is probably sick of me praising A Woman's Passion but everything CAS said above is why I love it. The tangential nature of the story is why I like it so much. It's a genuine vicarious feminine experience.

From: dis_guise , 153 months, post #31

At least in the first half of A Woman's Passion there's SO much about clothes and makeup -- even a bit about one man's clothes -- that it got tedious for me. I know that many readers of stories on FictionMania go for extended descriptions of female garb and putting it on, but I just found it overwhelming here. There is much good material in the book, and there are some problems with it. I think I'll write a detailed review when I'm finished reading. Some evil part of me wants to write a nasty parody, but my natural laziness and desire not to offend the author will surely keep me from doing that.

From: guest (me2) , 153 months, post #32

Alan, I agree with you. I enjoyed your book very much. As to plotting, I think it is better to slow down and enjoy the journey even if you stumble along the path. Hit all the marks you want to hit, all the scenes your character needs to experience! Real life isn't usually plotted out from A to Z nice and neat. Sometimes it's nice to get stuck around J for a while, double down on C, and maybe skip right past Q before you get to the end of your story! And it's the same in real life!

From: guest (CAS) , 153 months, post #33

I look forward to reading your final critique, dis_guise. (Even the parody might be fun to read!)

I'll wait until you've done that to explain why there is a lot about clothes in the novel. And it is not (just) about meeting the expectations of the FictionMania crowd. You might come to see why later in the book.

But, in any case, I'll explain my intention later. And try to do it without being too defensive about it!

From: guest (Stu Stanley) , 153 months, post #34

I've been out for a few days. Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I'll give this one final nudge in hopes that I might get a few more suggestions.

From: guest (AJ James) , 153 months, post #35

You know, Stu, I'll just say here that the criteria you mention are pretty much my guiding rules for most of my stories. I hope you'll check out my work. I pretty much write it for folks like you.

And thanks to those who recommended me.

From: guest (RikJohnson) , 153 months, post #36

I don't post on fictionmania but here is something with a medieval flavor I did.
http://rick-johnsons-writings.webs.com/conversion,.htm

looking it voer, the html-code is a bit messed which I will fix in the next few minutes.

From: D.A.W. , 153 months, post #37

<quote>I don't post on fictionmania but here is something with a medieval flavor I did.
http://rick-johnsons-writings.webs.com/conversion.htm

looking it voer, the html-code is a bit messed which I will fix in the next few minutes.</quote>

Fixed your link :)

From: D.A.W. , 153 months, post #38

Scratches head*

Why didn't my quote work?

From: kreplach , 153 months, post #39

You're welcome, AJ. Keep the storeis coming.

From: D.A.W. , 152 months, post #40

Just like to pop in and mention for those that enjoyed my story Incompatible, its sequel 'Transfigured: Makings of a Spellbinder' is now up on Tgstorytime and BigCloset Topshelf and has been submitted to Fictionmania.

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