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Avatar
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A paralyzed former marine is subjected to an experimental process allowing him to exist in a genetically engineered biological body - alongside the blue three meter tall ammonia breathing alien species called a Na'vi on the planet Pandora.
His mission is to settle and exploit the planet's resour ...more |
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From: KitsuneKit
, 174 months, post #61 |
I just saw this movie. In IMAX 3D, I kinda lost the experience
because I can't seem to do 3D (I dunno, something with my eyes, I
guess). Either way, my very short review of this movie.
Very pretty... ...but I did not care for the acting, the story, the
plot, the characters, the fact that you can give a guy a giant cat
body but not legs, the... you know what? It was a very pretty
movie. Let's just say that. Ferngully in Space, there you have it.
Sorry.
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From: guest (Sandwich)
, 174 months, post #62 |
Avatar made me feel too much like I actually had to say "Wow." It
didn't actually wow me.
Only two sci-fi movies that I've seen recently have done that.
2001: A Space Odyssey and District 9.
And why? Because there was a real sense of intellectual input
behind them. The ideas were excellent. Avatar felt too much like a
mash-up of Princess Mononoke and Dances With Wolves.
But I could see why a person would enjoy Avatar. Maybe I just
wasn't in the right mood.
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From: guest (uri)
, 174 months, post #63 |
Guest #60 Wrote: ...Big-multimillion dollar, mass released Blockbuster films like
James Cameron's Avatar, Star Wars, Transformers, Star Trek, 2012,,
etc, etc [are] FICTION.
It doesn't really matter if it can be explained perfectly in
scientific terms, if the plot/dialogue is cheesy, or if it has
enormous plot holes, because that's not what these kinds of films
are made for. These Film aren't supposed to be intelligent in any
way. They are designed to appeal to mass audiences and ultimately
generate the most amount of profit they can.
It is not that the movie is being judged against an unfair
standard. Rather, for some of us, the movie failed to deliver the
"thrills and chills" that would have made it easier to ignore the
plot holes.
The profit motive explains
why the movie was written for the
[ur=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LowestCommonDenominatorlowest
common denominator, but it does not excuse
the movie makers for having written a stupid movie.
In my market, tickets for Avatar ran from $9.50 for the 2D
presentation to $15.50 for IMAX 3D presentation. The movie has a
running time of 160 minutes. That is a substantial investment in
time and money for, what turned out to be, a 'performance capture'
demo reel draped over the corpse of "A Man Called Horse"
James Cameron may feel that the "going native"
fantasy is socially relevant, or edifying, or somehow offers
expiation for white privilege and colonial guilt
-- but he didn't add anything new
to this exhausted, and morally dubious, genre. In fact, he did a conspicuously bad job of storytelling
.
Why are you, and Mako, and Lady Sekhmet are so intent on arguing
against the opinions
of those of us who did not find the movie to be worth the
admission price? Does it diminish your enjoyment of the movie that
someone else found the experience disappointing?
No one in this thread has said that the folks who enjoyed the movie
are foolish or unsophisticated, but those of us who do not cheer
for it are objects of pity, lectured on the economics of movie
making, and told to just lighten up and stop thinking so much. It
is insulting.
And, by the way, add my vote to those who hold that the AVTR does
not resemble a physical transformation closely enough to merit
inclusion in the database.
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From: Michael Binary
, 174 months, post #64 |
> $15.50 for IMAX 3D
Click to show spoiler
V cnvq €10,50 (3q)
Click to show spoiler
Gur cevpr sbe 3 Cvag....fbeel ~ 4 k 0,5 Yvgre bs rkpryyrag Trezna
orre.
> And, by the way
Click to show spoiler
Jurer vf gur thrfg jub beqrerq gur fgenvtug wnpxrg?
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From: Mako
, 174 months, post #65 |
Uri... l'm just posting some past quotes below... to help answer
the notion that you feel I am arguing against the opinions of those
who did not care for the movie.
PREVIOUS QUOTE FROM MAKO: "Well... let me take a step back and
remember... not everyone is the same: People can get hung up on
details that others don't all the time. For example I had issues
with the new STAR TREK movie's logic that took me right out of the
film (I know some of the major makers of that movie - and they knew
they had story holes - but JJ didn't care - is what I was told)
HAHAHAHAHA. Anyways... my point... is that I couldn't enjoy the
movie as much cause I got too hung up on it. I know other people
that loved the movie and didn't have issues with it like I have.
And I get the sense AVATAR is no different. Although... I'm on the
other end of the playing field this time. Even after watching the
movie 2x now... I enjoyed it so much... I just don't care or see
the issues that some other people do."
QUOTE FROM URI DAYS AFTER: "Why are you, and Mako, and Lady Sekhmet
are so intent on arguing against the opinions of those of us who
did not find the movie to be worth the admission price? Does it
diminish your enjoyment of the movie that someone else found the
experience disappointing?"
As for diminishing the enjoyment of the movie... nope. I still
think it's an amazing film. But my point above is that even I admit
I can get hung up on plots or logic... and it takes me out of the
film. I am confirming that it's a possibility. This can happen on
any movie and to any person. So I don't agree with your statement
about arguing against the opinions of those who did not find the
movie to be worth the admission price?
I previously acknowledged not everyone is the same in my posts. So
I'm curious how is it you seem to think I don't? I think you are a
smart and highly intelligent person Uri. I recognized from the
beginning that AVATAR isn't for everyone. I love the film. Others
may not. I'm okay with that. I don't lose any enjoyment from the
film when others take issue with it (or even with me). I have
enough confidence in what I like and don't like to support who I
am. And I have enough confidence and respect in my myself and
others to acknowledge that individuals may not agree with me... and
that's okay. It's a movie. That's all.
- Mako -
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From: Michael Binary
, 174 months, post #66 |
@Mako
Don't get my postings wrong :-)
> It's a movie.
You are right.Click to show spoiler
N zbivr gung pbagnvaf n obqlfjnc, VZUB.
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From: guest (uri)
, 174 months, post #67 |
Yes Mako. I should probably have written "Why did
Mako...etc.
The thing is, I did not read post 55 as a modification of your
position in posts 42 and 46. However, you do acknowledge that other
people might have -- presumably valid -- opinions which differ from
yours. I stand corrected.
quote Mako: People can get hung up on details that others don't all the time.
The story is not a 'detail'. The movie was boring and predictable.
If there had been more than mere spectacle, then I might have been
inclined to forgive the bad science fiction and the gaping plot
holes. There was nothing to take me past those deficiencies.
What disappointed me most, although I cannot say that it surprised
me at all, was that James Cameron did not spend one penny of his
creative capital to make a more challenging movie. He is a bankable
talent, someone who might have been able to make something really
worthwhile with all this whiz-bang technology -- instead, he made
applesauce.
Click to show spoiler
Gurer jrer fb znal zvffrq bccbeghavgvrf va guvf zbivr, fb znal --
purnc naq rnfl -- jnlf gung vg pbhyq unir orra znqr orggre. Sbe
vafgnapr, gur Zvtugl Juvgrl gebcr pbhyq unir orra fhoiregrq vs gur
NIGE obqvrf unq orra ratvarrerq gb or snfgre naq fgebatre guna erny
An'iv. Gur ZpThssva pbhyq unir orra gur fheiviny bs gur uhzna
fcrpvrf engure guna cebsvg. Vs gur rnegu'f ovbfcurer jnf ehvarq,
Cnaqben'f bayl fyvtugyl cbvfbabhf ngzbfcurer zvtug znxr vg purncre
gb grensbez, rira jvgu gur pbfg bs vagrefgryyne geniry, guna nal
bcgvba pybfre gb Fby. Wnxr'f orgenlny jbhyq unir gura unir unq fbzr
jrvtug; pbaqrzavat uvf jubyr fcrpvrf gb rkgvapgvba sbe gur fnxr bs
uvf fbhy... ohg jub'q purre sbe gung?
And this is way off topic and more than a little redundant, so I am
done.
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From: guest (uri)
, 174 months, post #68 |
Michael Binary
Click to show spoiler
Nobhg gur obqlfjnc: V guvax lbh ner gnyxvat nobhg gur irel ynfg
fprar, jurer gur An'iv ner qnapvat nebhaq Wnxr naq uvf NIGE? V unir
gb pbasrff, V jnf nyernql ernpuvat sbe zl pbng naq chefr, fb V
zvffrq gur ynfg srj senzrf bs gur zbivr. Qvq gur NIGE bcra vgf
rlrf?
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From: Michael Binary
, 174 months, post #69 |
> ............its eyes?
Click to show spoiler
Gur "NIGE" vf abg na "NIGE" nalzber, V nz nsenvq.
I am referring also on post #5
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From: guest
, 174 months, post #70 |
"I just saw this movie. In IMAX 3D, I kinda lost the experience
because I can't seem to do 3D (I dunno, something with my eyes, I
guess). "
Which could be that technologies killer.Lots of older folk have
cataracts,glaucoma,rp,etc that would render a 3d viewing impossible
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From: guest (TFfan)
, 174 months, post #71 |
Just saw Avatar and think it's amazing!! Great story too!! Deserves
the Billions it's gonna get!! I never had any problems with the 3d.
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From: Lady Sekhmet
, 174 months, post #72 |
Well, clearly opinions vary on this film, but it's worth mentioning
that it just blew past the $1 billion mark worldwide this weekend -
that's in just 17 days since release.
Not bad for a movie with our favorite subject in it.
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From: KitsuneKit
, 174 months, post #73 |
Avatar Movie summed up in 5 seconds:
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/5-second-movies/15506-ep144
As I said, I thought it was a very pretty movie, just not a very
good one, in my own opinion. Personally, I loved Princess and the
Frog way more.
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From: Lady Sekhmet
, 174 months, post #74 |
Someone needs to do a brain study of those who enjoyed and those
who were turned off by Avatar. Those who didn't like it can't
understand why others loved it and vice versa - would be
interesting to know why.
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From: guest (uri)
, 174 months, post #75 |
Lady Sekhmet wroter: Someone needs to do a brain study of those who enjoyed and those
who were turned off by Avatar. Those who didn't like it can't
understand why others loved it and vice versa
How many more ways do you think you can find to dismiss and
condescend to the folks who do not share your opinion of this
movie?
Who, in this thread, has said that he or she did not -- or could
not -- understand the appeal of this movie?
Who, anywhere, reviewed this movie by saying "I don't know why it
disappointed me, but it just did.??
Seriously, I am just going to ignore your posts from now on.
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From: guest (Blaise)
, 174 months, post #76 |
How rude...
I think what LS was actually trying to say was that she'd find it
interesting to know what differences in brain chemistry mean that
some individuals are able to suspend belief, relax into the
experience and really thoroughly enjoy it and others find
themselves driven mad by the little details and overall find their
experience too coloured by this to enjoy the movie.
As I said earlier, in my opinion all entertainment is derivitive
and echoes and reflects multiple sources of inspiration. I've seen
most of the movies that folks agree formed aspects of Avatar's
storyline and I too can see the similiarities to them. I've got a
science degree and i'm working towards another currently and I can
also read your arguments on the science in the movie and see the
flaws are real and present in the movie.
I guess what i'm trying to trying to say is that I consider myself
an educated and intelligent individual that's just as capable of
being jaded and cynical about a movie and letting the small things
bug me, but on this occasion, with THIS movie I was able to rise
above it - in a very real sense to me, the sum was greater than the
parts.
So i too would be interested in knowing what differences there is
between my brain chemistry and someone on the opposite side of the
spectrum that causes this. Maybe given the penchant of the genetics
industry to try and name and patent genes based on the flimsiest
evidence of a connection to a behavioural trait we should call it
the 'suspension-of-disbelief' gene :-p
Blaise
ps - On the subject of movies that one just 'doesn't get' when
others rave about it.......The Fountain. It even has a TF of a main
character into a bush, lol. I thought it was the most shocking,
garbled, pretentious, up-it's-own bottom pile of drivel i've ever
had the misfortune to waste 2 hours of my life watching (second
only to Eraserhead), but i've read reviews where people have
described it as 'magnificent', 'life-changing', 'enthalling' and
'beautiful'. It's the same sort of thing as Lady S was trying to
say - just why do I react so vehemently against the same movie that
other feel so powerfully about...?
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From: guest (uri)
, 174 months, post #77 |
Blaise: How rude...
Yes, very rude of me to point out that Lady Sekhmet is insulting
the intelligence and taste of those with whom she disagrees.
Blaise: I think what LS was actually trying to say was that she'd find it
interesting to know what differences in brain chemistry mean that
some individuals are able to suspend belief, relax into the
experience and really thoroughly enjoy it and others find
themselves driven mad by the little details and overall find their
experience too coloured by this to enjoy the movie.
I think you are are correct. Since my posts in this thread add up
to a f_cking doctoral dissertation on the ways in which the movie
was bad drama and weak science fiction, I am insulted by the
implication that my reasons for liking, or disliking the movie are
not the product of thoughtful examination.
Blaise: I guess what i'm trying to trying to say is that I consider myself
an educated and intelligent individual that's just as capable of
being jaded and cynical about a movie and letting the small things
bug me, but on this occasion, with THIS movie I was able to rise
above it - in a very real sense to me, the sum was greater than the
parts.
You and Lady S. should form a club. I am "jaded" and "cynical",
while you were able to "rise above" such petty concerns as plot and
characterization to appreciate that to which I am blind --
presumably due to some difference in my neuroanatomy.
As I said to Mako a few posts upthread, the STORY is not a "small
thing". The STORY is why you make a movie. The STORY was absent
from this effort.
Interestingly, the majority of the negative reviews -- at least on
the Science Fiction Interwebs -- are coming from James Cameron's
fan-base, cineastes and connoisseurs of the genre (of his previous
films, in particular):
Daily Beast Blog on the Austin Premiere
Mike Russel's Dissection at AICN
Major Spoilers!
Onion AV Club Review
Annalee Newiitz on the Mighty Whitey trope at io9
Devin Faraci at CHUD
All of these reviews praise the visuals. All of these reviewers
acknowledge that the movie has a certain appeal, and provided some
enjoyment.
All of these reviewers offered REASONED ANALYSIS of the movie's
failures and disappointments.
Lady Sekhmet is doing what many uncritical fans of the movie are
doing in other forums. Devin Faraci descibes it in his article
(linked above).
The latest tact is to say that those who don't like Avatar must
simply have something wrong with them. In that Wells article he has
some anonymous internet commenter compare not liking Avatar to not
liking Arcade Fire's Funeral ... a completely mainstream, totally
unchallenging record that's tailor-made to be used in
advertisements. It's actually a pretty good comparison, I guess, as
Avatar is completely unchallenging mainstream fare that requires
little by way of intellectual engagement and never threatens to
make one uncomfortable or even make a viewer tense, since it's
almost completely free of drama.
Having lost the "it is too good science fiction" and the "just
relax and enjoy the ride" arguments, Lady S. now wants it to be a
matter of brain chemistry because she is afraid that the
alternative somehow reflects upon her intelligence.
If Lady S. admits that someone didn't like the movie because he or
she thought
about it, then she must infer that she liked it because she is not
as thoughtful or perceptive as she imagines herself to be. So much
better, then, if all opinions about the movie are a matter of a
genetic predisposition, and that any analysis resulting in a
negative review reduces to a mass of rationalizations for an
unreasoned, and unreasonable, position.
And Blaise, there was nothing to "rise above" here. Its a boring
and obvious story told with beautiful images. The "message"
(delivered with the subtlety and finesse of a brick to the face)
was not lost on me. It just wasn't worth my money or my time to see
what James Cameron has to say about the genocide of aboriginal
peoples, the Gaia Hypothesis, environmentalism, and American
military adventurism in the middle east.
I have willingly suspended my disbelief in the face of weaker
characters, worse dialogue, and more flagrant abuses of science
than Cameron perpetrated here -- but only if the filmmaker gave me
a reason. For me, there was no pay off here. To paraphrase a
reviewer on the B Movie Forum; it was like watching somebody else
play an Xbox game for 2 hours and 40 minutes.
I say again, the movie was applesauce. Very few people can muster
the energy to hate applesauce, but it isn't a meal.
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From: Lady Sekhmet
, 174 months, post #78 |
Uri, I'm afraid I'm going to need a sample of your brain tissue :)
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From: Chalkerfan
, 174 months, post #79 |
I haven't seen the movie yet, I think I'll just follow this thread
instead. Top-notch forum war shenanigans and willy-waving.
Marvellous stuff.
10/10 to whoever choreographs this :-)
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From: guest (guest)
, 174 months, post #80 |
To all the people who don't like the movie I can see your point. It
was basically Dances with Wolves in space, but you got to give it
to James Cameron The movie looked great and considering the 500
million dollar movie made a profit is astonishing itself. Maybe the
next one will have a better plot, and maybe it will look even
better. James Cameron is a pretty smart guy, and I'm sure he'll
look at the negatives of the first and improve on the second.
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