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A paralyzed former marine is subjected to an experimental process allowing him to exist in a genetically engineered biological body - alongside the blue three meter tall ammonia breathing alien species called a Na'vi on the planet Pandora.
His mission is to settle and exploit the planet's resour ...more |
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From: guest
, 174 months, post #21 |
From what I recall the 1980's movie on the Russian tank crew got
the audience to
connect to the crew by having the russkies speak American whilst
everyone else
spoke in some foreign tongue.
probably getting people to connect with anthropomorphic characters
is not big deal
I doubt however I'm going to waste the money on a theatre ticket
just to watch Cameron preach conventional 2009 issues in a hi tech
movie.
Daring would be to make a movie with a outdated social message.
Eg
Make a movie assuming your audience is composed
of 1855 Crimea War veterans.
Problem is with 250million at stake,Cameron can't be daring and
creative.
Hence no "Avatar 1855".from him.
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From: Lady Sekhmet
, 174 months, post #22 |
So... you're equating a Russian tank crew with 10' tall aliens? You
do realize that Russians are the same species as the rest of us
right? :)
Anyway, that's a lot of negative critique from someone who hasn't
seen the film yet.
Lots of folks HAVE seen it, and they feel their money was well
spent. I count myself among them.
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From: guest
, 174 months, post #23 |
psychology.
Once the moneys gone the spenders going to justify the
expenditure,regardless
of whether the film was good or not.
I'd like to see Cameron try to chuck all that money on a film
populated
with sling tentacled bug eyed things,and a message that doesn't
reflect current
(2009) demographics and social attitudes.
Since chucking 250 million on tentacle things with a target
audience of
1855 Crimean War vets with a social message aimed at mid 19th
century societal
cultural attitudes would be financial suicide,Cameron and that huge
advisory board
looking over his shoulder will never be able to do something truly
groundbreaking and
creative and different.
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From: guest
, 174 months, post #24 |
"Anyway, that's a lot of negative critique from someone who hasn't
seen the film yet."
Theres plenty of reviews and commentary on the film around.Enough
so that I can make a reasonably informed descision on whether to
spend my money on it.
Nothing I've read suggests its a "must see" film.Just plenty of
hype,as someone
commented.
What I'm saying is to chuck 250-500 million dollars down the toilet
when the message
and plot could have been done for considerably less is painful.I
will not then
help bail out Cameron by sending him my own money.As someone
else said.its just a "Noble Savage invaded by the Europeans"
plot.They didn't need f/x andall the rest to tell that story.
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From: guest (Guest)
, 174 months, post #25 |
Saw it last night. Fantastic movie.
The special effects were great, the plot was not entirely original,
but it was engaging, and the characters were well fleshed out.
Well worth the money for my family and me!
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From: guest (Blaise)
, 174 months, post #26 |
Hi All
Sorry to jump on the bandwagon but ....shit, i will. I too've seen
it and have to say that it was absolutely INCREDIBLE, totally
awe-inspiring in it's scope and imagination. If you haven't seen it
but still choose to read the rants of other jaded cynics then fine,
but why come to a thread where people are discussing having SEEN
the movie and what they thought of it and decide to piss all over
it from the lofty heights of your ivory tower?
And all that 'wa wa waaaa' about it being a recycled storyline and
not 'original' or 'daring'.....well d'uh..... after 80+ years of
cinema and several hundred years worth of written fiction there are
very few truly original stories left to tell. Every story is a
variation on established themes that taps into the human psyche and
stirs our emotion using well known tools; love, betrayal,
friendship, horror and all the other facets of human nature. It's
just the way the story is told that matters.
Avatar, in my opinion created the most coherent, well-realised
extra-terrestrial setting i've ever seen. The quality of the CG and
the vistas that were able to be explored using it as opposed to
conventional location shoots was jaw-dropping. Yes the storyline
had elements of "Noble Savage invaded by the Europeans" but it also
had elements of Dances with Wolves, Medicine Man and even Starship
troopers; the whole was much much more than the sum of its parts
however and I haven't been sucked into a movie in quite that way
for a long time.
Yes, Cameron could have made the aliens 'truly alien' but then how
would we empathise with them? The beauty of the story was that the
Na'vi have just enough human qualities to enable us to empathise
with them but in many ways really were alien. Many of the creature
designs in the movie and the obvious though that has gone into them
are stunning and pretty damn original in my opinion.
Basically i'm saying 'if you haven't SEEN the movie then you can't
really make any qualified statements about it'. Yes it was
expensive. Do I think it was worth it? Yes.
I'm sure someone will make some Crimean war arthouse movie to keep
you happy 'guest' but it wouldn't be a movie that *I* would want to
see, or one that i'd slag off publically without having seen.....
Blaise
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From: shoeshineboy
, 174 months, post #27 |
I was pretty sceptical going into the theater to see Avatar. I was
afraid it was going to have a weak story and rest entirely on
flashy special effects.
I was blown away. I had an amazing time. I am in agreement with the
comments of Blaise, with the exception that I would probably enjoy
an art house movie of the Crimean War.
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From: guest (Swiftner)
, 174 months, post #28 |
Is it just me or was this movie just a hightech version of dances
with Wolves? I mean the same plot and all. I do have to say I
enjoyed it, good special effects and a good plot but again I liked
Dances with Wolves.
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From: guest (D)
, 174 months, post #29 |
Ok guys I saw this movie in 3D and it's the BEST movie I've seen in
years. I thought the trailer was ok but the movie surpasses the
trailer and it's AWESOME. It's one of the best experiences I've
ever had watching a movie and I'm disappointed that movies like New
Moon will probably end up making more money than this. The really
sad thing about Avatar is that if it doesn't make a lot of money
than it could be the last big budget movie that will be made for a
while :( It's not everyday you see a 300 million budgeted movie
used to make a new franchise and James Cameron is GENUISE. I'm
seeing it again tommorrow in IMAX and I really really hope anyone
with an open mind sees this. It NEEDS to make money!
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From: guest (unBlaise)
, 174 months, post #30 |
I suppose the question then is whether the entertainment industry
really needs
big budget movies to survive.?
Impression I have is that the vast majority of movie work is done
with live
actors in everyday common setting playing on some variation of the
Boy meets Girl
Boy Loses Girl
Boy Gets Girl back
and any new developments involves the script rather then f/x and
gadgets
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From: Lady Sekhmet
, 174 months, post #31 |
Excellent post Blaise, and quite right.
The only thing I would add here is that this is Metamorphose.org.
This was a technically brilliant film, with a solid, if not
entirely original, storyline. But the icing on the cake is that all
this talent was spent on creating a film that has a very strong tie
in to this site - that of becoming something new.
And this is only the beginning. The techniques pioneered in the
making of this film are sure to be used in lots of upcoming movies.
No one spends this kind of money perfecting that kind of skillset
only to shelve it.
How long before Mako puts out a sequel based on a marine who has to
replace his twin sisters avatar rather than his brothers :)
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From: guest (Madaba)
, 174 months, post #32 |
I didn't think it was that great. Entertaining sure but it really
fell flat in almost every aspect that wasn't the visuals.
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From: guest (Blaise)
, 174 months, post #33 |
LoL Lady S.
That might have been exactly the sort of 'daring' plot angle that
Cameron has been accused of not making :P
Would have loved to have seen that movie too, hehe.
And i agree with you on the developmental aspect. Final Fantasy:
The Spirits within was the last really ambitious CG project and it
was absolutely stunning in it's visuals in my opinion but suffered
from an extremely convoluted and confusing plot. It bombed and
Square Enix jettisoned their CG movie department after spending
insane amounts developing it.....but it lived on and the same
standard of CG has been built on.
Hopefully Avatar wont bomb out financially and will become the new
industry standard :) Probably the only bad thing is the expense of
such productions at the moment.
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From: guest (vox publica)
, 174 months, post #34 |
Yep. :) Dances with Wolves meets Fern Gully... in space. ha ha.
Don't get me wrong, it was visually stunning. The story wasn't
anything to write home about, though -- but it wasn't bad, either.
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From: guest (Bill)
, 174 months, post #35 |
My only comment after seeing it a few hours ago...I want to marry
that blue chick!
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From: guest (uri)
, 174 months, post #36 |
Count me among the "visually stunned" but ultimately bored crowd.
The CGI was amazing, but also kind of creepy. While not nearly as
creepy as Bob Zemeckis' 3D MoCap exercises, The Na'vi were pretty
deep into the Uncanny Valley for me.
Actually, "stunning" is a very apt description of the effect of the
visual spectacle married to the trite and predictable story; it
left me numb and unresponsive. I was ready to leave the theater
before the half-way point.
But then, I'm a tough audience for this kind of stuff. The
"science" content is just crap start-to-finish, and creates huge
plot holes. Like guest #23, I'd have preferred t if the hero had to
empathize with some truly alien aliens -- things without faces, or
pert breasts.
I don't begrudge those who thought it was a great movie, I just
wish that somebody would employ all this movie-making technology
for a serious science fiction film once in a while.
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From: Michael Binary
, 174 months, post #37 |
There are a lot of certain parallels.
I watched FernGully: The Last Rainforest, several years back.
Somewhere in 1990 I read Dee Browns "Bury My Heart at Wounded
Knee"(transl.).
At the same time I enjoyed the Oscar-winning movie "Dances with
wolfes"(dubbed, unfortunatly this version was just 173 Minutes,
later I watched the 227 Minutes version, dubbed).
General Custer(Generalmajor) and Colonel Miles Quaritch, what had
happened if the Na'vi had lost and Quaritch KIA.
Colonel Miles Quaritch gets a memorial?
I think the occupying forces would be clever enough and the same
would happend to the Na'vi like what had happened to the no more
existing Mandan
(the last full-blood Mandan died in 1971 (English source) in 1975
(German source)).
Custer (Küster = Sexton) had German roots.
Nevertheless, AVATAR is an entertaining movie, and Neytiri (Zoe
Saldana) is a beauty (Uhura in Star Trek). Great CGI, controversal
plot.
3D (now put your glasses on) is an interesting experience.
Thats the reason why I am here on MM.ORG:
What if........
and thats the same reason for reading SciFi.
And asking uncomfortable questions.
The bodyswap
aspect of AVATAR remembers me to a German bodyswap movie, where a
German citizen(male - xenophobic) swaps body with an asylum seeker
(male - Bosnia?).
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From: Lady Sekhmet
, 174 months, post #38 |
The "science" content is just crap start-to-finish, and creates
huge plot holes.
I recommend reading this for an actual scientific critique of the
film:
Copernicus Grades Cameron On The Science of AVATAR
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From: guest (BOOOOMMMMssshhhhhhhh)
, 174 months, post #39 |
"Actually, "stunning" is a very apt description of the effect of
the visual spectacle married to the trite and predictable story; it
left me numb and unresponsive. I was ready to leave the theater
before the half-way point."
Yeah some of the tecchie f/x laden movies have done that to me as
well.You just
wish they'd chuck the laser light show and show two actors quietly
discussing the
plot rather then flatten you with noise and light
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From: guest (uri)
, 174 months, post #40 |
Lady S.
I did read that review.
And this one
and this one
, and others besides. The 'science' of Avatar has been a favorite
topic of discussion among my colleagues for weeks.
More to the point, I am a scientist (physicist), and I can make my
own determination about these things.
'Copernicus' is grading on a curve -- I choose not to. While
Cameron gets points -- from some viewers --for getting some things
less wrong than he might have, or more right than he absolutely
needed to, he still gets the central bits very, very, stupidly,
wrong:
Anthropomorphic aliens are excusable if you are stuck using actors
in suits. If you have the technology to visualize a truly alien
biosphere, then the Na'vi are just lazy and stupid.
The technology of the Avatars is stupid too. Mixing human DNA with
alien not-DNA to produce viable synthetic organisms, which are
controlled by techno-telepathy, but telepathy that only works if
there is a DNA match between Avatar and host...la la la ... that's
just gibberish.
And the MacGuffin -- a high temperature superconductor -- just
isn't valuable enough to warrant this much trouble for a
civilization that has, apparently, learned how to synthesize and
store antimatter in the quantities that would be needed to
accelerate millions of tonnes of material to 70% of the speed of
light, then decelerate those tonnes back to orbital insertion
speed.
Assume the mile-long ship is made of something about as dense as
aluminum and has a solid volume of a thousandth of a cubic mile,
that gives it a mass of about 4 billion tonnes -- most of which is
going to be containment for the fuel.
Assume the ship accelerates from earth orbital speed to 0.7c at 1g.
That way the crew gets normal gravity for about nine months, while
the ship gets up to cruising speed and again, at the end of the
trip, as it decelerates at into the Alpha Centauri system.
Assuming 100% efficiency, that would take something like 980
million tonnes of antimatter -- for a one way trip. Assuming you
jettison equipment equal to the mass of the unobtainite that you
planned to haul back, that's almost 2 billion tonnes of antimatter
for the round trip.
You could save a little. if you did a few retrograde orbits of the
center of mass of the binary system, giving up some momentum that
way; but not that much. Even if you construct the ship out of
unreasonable strong, ultra low density materials, and take maximum
advantage of the orbital mechanics a both ends, it is still going
to be hundreds of thousands of tonnes of antimatter to get there
and back.
Any way you cut it, the propulsion system of the interstellar space
ship would either be too expensive to make recovery of the
unobtainite ore pay, or would depend upon a technology that made
the unobtainite ore worthless.
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