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From: guest (Kathie)
, 106 months, post #21 |
Yes... there are still things to be unhappy about and "battles" to
fight. Many times thinking "WHY are WE women treated this way???"
The unhappiness is the the question... but it's worth it for the
happiness of now saying "we". You just have to remind yourself of
what you now, after a few years, tend to take for granted unless
you make a point of bringing it to your conscious mind.
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From: guest (KJ)
, 106 months, post #22 |
So much of this could be used in a story of a man magically changed
into a woman
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #23 |
To Kathie:
But don't most of these battles come from the fact she is a woman
and not the fact she is a transwoman?
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #24 |
Gallux wrote: �I always fantasized the physical aspect of the woman body... but
retaining life as a guy... pretty much �a man trapped inside a
woman's body�... exactly what was related here.�
I think my fantasy could be related to yours, but this is not
what is related there. She lives a woman's life, and she doesn't like some aspects of it: the
way she is treated (�people treat me in ways I haven�t experienced since I was in high
school - being condescending, acting superior, and not taking me
seriously�
), the clothing... A lot of women agree with her. Some of her other
problems come from the face she is a woman remembering being a guy,
not a guy trapped into a woman's body. She loves being a woman.
That's what she wanted to, isn't it?
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From: guest (Kathie)
, 106 months, post #25 |
Forestier: Absolutely. And that's the point. You have to remember
to remember that you now have that (i.e. that I *am* female) and
that these struggles come from being female. When you do that, the
struggles are still struggles and yet you can view them with joy.
Much in the same way that the OP said she was "happy being
unhappy." At least that is my experience. When I get frustrated by
something that only (or mostly) happens to women, I get pleasure
out of the fact that the experience is a form of validation.
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #26 |
Kathie,
Are you a transwoman? If so, how do you relate to the diverse
aspects of the OP? For example, that your experience was not what
you expected (in which respects?), or the desire you sometimes
still had a penis.
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #27 |
http://pre05.deviantart.net/0aec/th/pre/i/2012/127/c/9/what__by_adriandrawing-d4yusoo.jpg
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From: guest (Hysteria)
, 106 months, post #28 |
Full disclosure, here, I've never posted on this board before and
usually only lurk it to see if anyone links erotica I haven't read.
But reading this post, I feel compelled to talk frankly about my
own experiences as a MtF transgender person who also has a TG
fetish, since a lot of this came across as kind of... Disingenuous,
to me? Or idealized and obsessive over certain elements in the same
way you'd see in a story. Not to say the authors experiences aren't
valid if they are true, just the dissonance was such that I feel
the need to offer a differing perspective in case anyone gets
"inspired" by it. So, consider this a sort of confession/cautionary
tale. I'm going to speak as shamelessly as one can while remaining
PG-13 here, by the way, so consider yourself warned.
First, a quick rundown of my life experience pertaining to this
stuff: When I was 12 or 13ish, I read some otherwise innocent story
on... I think it was the Gaia Online forums (this would've been in
the early 2000s), which happened to have a body swap between a male
and a female character, and I got massively turned on for the first
time in my life. I'd never masturbated before then, and was barely
able to be aroused by anything vanilla after the fact. Over the
course of the next five years, I consumed massive amounts of TG
material, though most of it was at first not explicitly erotic in
nature; Webcomics, stories, that sort of stuff. Eventually I moved
on to explicit pornographic material, though that was a while
later.
I was 17 when I first connected the concept of transgenderism to
that obsession, and had the idea that it could be actualized. To
this day I'm not really certain if I was/am gender dysphoric. I've
thought a lot about if those feelings arose as a sort of warped
interpretation of a body dissonance that my mind didn't know how to
otherwise express, or if they were simply the result of a weird and
sheltered upbringing. I think I came to idolize femininity in sort
of an unhealthy way as teenager, since I was nerdy and had terrible
hygiene and social skills, and saw girls as a sort of untouchable
ideal of the opposite of those things. But on the other hand, I do
feel at least decently comfortable how I am now, so who knows.
Regardless, what is certain is that I lied to a lot of people
(doctors, therapists, my parents) about the sort of feelings I was
having in an attempt to paint myself as a traditionally transgender
person so that I would be allowed to transition for reasons that
were, in full truthfulness, mostly sexual at the time, though at a
point I even managed to convince myself this wasn't the case. Like
the OP, the actual process wasn't too bad (though don't let anyone
tell you that facial, vocal, and genital surgery are not super
painful and profoundly emotionally unpleasant) since I had a
supportive family with a lot of money, and passing has been pretty
easy because of my youth and Asian heritage. I've even had people
tell me I could be a model, though I think that's more because of
my height than having especially pretty facial features. I
eventually had GRS at age 22. That was 3 and a half years ago.
What I've learned, being where I am now, is that being a woman is
not even a fraction as remarkable or interesting as TG material
makes it out to be. Seriously, I don't mean that in a coy, "ohhh,
doing girly things and being lusted after by men is just ~part of
my life now,~ i'm used to it! /jerks off" way, I mean it is
literally 90% exactly the same, with the remaining 10% being
largely dull or annoying. Any experience I thought erotically
exclusive to women was, in fact, either based on a misconception,
or became very quickly emotionlessly mundane.
First, lets talk physical business. To begin with, the novelty of
having breasts wears off after about 5 minutes. Half of the
mystical qualities I've heard TG writers ascribe to them, and that
I once believed, now completely baffle me. They're largely dull
lumps of flesh like you'd find on the back of your leg, and I've
basically forgotten mine exist. I admit I'm only a B cup, but even
the stuff the OP is saying about their breasts making physical
activity like running uncomfortable makes it sound like they're
buying bras that are cheap or don't fit properly, because when I'm
wearing mine, I feel like I'd need to be skydiving for them to be a
be notably unpleasant.
As for men staring at them, again, YMMV, but I could count the
amount of times that it's happened to me that I've noticed on one
hand. Whenever I've seen men looking at me, which usually only
happens with pretty skeevy people or in very crowded places, it's
usually at my face or legs.
Gender reassignment surgery was a bigger deal then that, obviously.
Though frankly it surprised and sort of disappointed me how quickly
having a vagina became unremarkable, and how little of a thrill I
really got out of it at any point. When it was first done, for a
month or two the whole area was a zone I just didn't want to think
about, and to be honest by the time that was over I'd already
become used to the major changes. I did have sort of an "AHHH"
reaction for a while every time I put on underwear and was struck
by the fact that there was nothing there, though I wouldn't really
describe it as a positive feeling, just surprise. Like, my brain
hadn't quite caught up.
Peeing obviously became different, but you'd be surprised how small
the actual sensory difference is, and frankly the OP seems obsessed
with the disparity in convenience in kind of a strange way (though,
hey, I'm certainly in no position to judge) when it's never been a
huge factor in my experience. Especially since you actually can pee
standing up as a woman. In fact, I've done it several times in
filthy bathrooms where sitting down was not an option. It's just a
bit awkward.
More importantly then all that, though, I was struck by how little
really changed psychologically and socially compared to what I had
expected. One thing I imagined a lot when I started transition was
how I'd be treated differently as a woman - You guys know all the
tropes. Being seen as sexual by definition, having trouble relating
to men and ending up making more female friends, being seen as a
girl foremostly in all circumstances... Perhaps it's a result of
the sort of company I keep, or my generational group, or that I'm
bookish and still shy away from a lot of more physical hobbies, but
I barely experienced any of that. I find people treat me by in
large exactly the same, and I'm not talking about people who knew
me pre-transition (I didn't have many friends before then, so not a
problem). The only people who don't are usually much older than me
or strangers giving weird compliments.
That's not to say female objectification isn't present in my
society. I do notice it in subtle, pervasive ways. But it's distant
and not really a part of my personal relationships.
I've also found little glamour in having to take care of my
appearance differently, though buying clothing is more fun when
people actually kinda care what you wear. I've sort of gotten into
high fashion stuff. (And I do admit wearing tights with a vagina is
still pretty hot.) But makeup is a pain and, honestly, pretty gross
at times, especially when it's hot and you sweat a lot. Shaving is
also not something I need to think about that much, since you can
buy a pretty good home laser treatment system for yourself and
basically wipe out most body hair if it's dark.
(As a side note, the OP said that they take an hour to get ready
every time they go out. I'm probably a tremendous narcissist (if
you hadn't already picked up on that), but even I have no idea how
they manage that. Once you have a little practice, it takes maybe 5
minutes at most to put on concealer, foundation, and a small amount
of eyeshadow, which is the most you'll ever need except for parties
and weddings. Add maybe 5 minutes for a quick shower (the only time
I spend 20+ is when I wash my hair, which if you don't want to
reduce it to a frizzy mess should happen once every 3-4 days) and
10 to get dressed it's usually done in less then a half hour. So
unless they're a mess for a reason that has little to do with
gender, it's not that much different from the time a guy would
take.)
The greatest surprise for me, though, was how I, myself, didn't
really change. What I've always found most "interesting" about TG
fiction was not per se the physical stuff, but more the mental
shift of someone becoming a different person in response to a
change in biology and social circumstance. Obviously it's usually
done in an over-the-top way in fetish material, but I'd still heard
testimonies of actual transwomen talking about shifts in sexuality
and fundamental personality, such as in the OP. So I thought it'd
happen to me.
It didn't. For example, I'd thought that after my reassignment
surgery, what I found arousing would change - My fetish would
vanish, fulfilled completely as I entered a state of TG nirvana, or
something equally nuts, and that I'd come to have a normal
sexuality. This did not happen. For the first half a year after my
reassignment I was essentially sexless due to lack of sensitivity,
but when I finally became able to become aroused and orgasm again,
I found myself drifting back to the same old haunts to get thrills.
Hentai sites, BigCloset, this place. I still basically can only
enjoy fetish content. The only real changes were that I stopped
inserting myself into fantasies, and that it now really takes more
extreme material to interest me. Radical shifts and fringe stuff,
like identity theft. Masturbation is physically very different, but
mentally, I feel the same.
Emotional changes were pretty limited too. I do get upset and cry a
bit more freely, and feel generally more comfortable expressing
myself overtly , but that's about the start and end of it.
I did try sex with a man at one point about a year and a half ago.
Before it happened, I'd got myself kind of excited for it in some
of the same ways the OP describes feeling about it, in a sort of
meta way where I thought I'd both enjoy the physical experience
itself, and the erotic nostalgic fascination of my natural role in
it being switched with another person. But this fantasy completely
crumbled in the face of actual reality, and it ended up being super
uncomfortable and awkward. I found the concept of a penis
surprisingly disgusting when facing it down as a foreign object,
and I ended up covered in a dudes sweat while he failed to sexually
stimulate me really at all.
I think it was at that point that I realized the idea of "becoming
a girl" that existed in my fantasies, and in those of the TG
community at large, was divorced from reality and exoticized
physical and behavioral femininity to an absurd degree. The OP
talks about gender as if it's a canyon that's a monumental
experience to cross, using terminology that makes it sound like a
magic spell has been cast, and implying some massive rift between
"guy life" and "girl life." I find that idea sexually thrilling, of
some kinda epic and irreversible transcendence of identity and
self.
But that fetish is... Just a fetish. When applied to the real
world, I can't relate to it whatsoever. Even though I dress and act
pretty femininely, womanhood has ended up becoming super mundane,
and my experiences have even made me sort of question what gender
even is, and how strange the hold it has on human sexuality appears
when really considered. The canyon feels like it was just a ditch,
like I traded a handful of life-experiences and physical features
for another. They say they still feel like a guy on some level, I
don't even really see my innermost self as gendered anymore.
I'm not truly certain as to if I regret it. I don't feel dysphoric
as I am now, and I've grown and come to feel better about myself in
striving to reach this point. But I do wonder if I've really gained
much, and I worry sometimes about the future. It'll always be
baggage I have to bring into any relationship, and I've permanently
(well, I guess never say never, since they're doing womb
transplants now) lost the ability to have a child. And sometimes I
feel a bit of self-loathing in that I've allowed a sexual desire to
interfere in my fundamental self-identity to such an extent.
But the thing that makes me the most unhappy is that I could never
admit any of this to a friend, or even a therapist. A lot of the
things I've said in this post feel are so out there I could totally
never admit IRL. And that's a sort of lonely feeling.
I feel like there's a lot more I could say here, but what I mean, I
guess in conclusion, is that if you have sexual feelings towards
the idea of gender reassignment as well as a degree of what you
think to be actual gender dysphoria, you should give a long thought
to where you really want to see yourself in the very long term
before acting, as well as thinking about the difference between
genders really means once stripped of all it's mystique, and the
nature of your kink reduced to the sum of it's parts.
Better yet, don't listen to my advice at all, since I'm obviously a
massive pervert.
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #29 |
Thanks a lot for sharing, Hysteria. Helps us distinguish between
autogynephilia and real
gender dysphoria.
Although I find it strange men don't stare at you. Nearly all women
say it happens to them.
I hope you'll find some peace and some love in your life, and
someone to talk to IRL.
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #30 |
Some (intimate) questions, Hysteria. Feel free not to answer, if
you don't feel like it.
The OP's original author wrote she had been a straight man, and
that she is still attracted to women but cannot fulfill this
attraction in the way she'd like to, i.e. as a man. Were you
attracted to women when you were a man? Did you make love with
women before the change? How do you feel and live sexual attraction
now?
“To begin with, the novelty of having breasts wears off after about
5 minutes. Half of the mystical qualities
I've heard TG writers ascribe to them, and that I once believed,
now completely baffle me.”
What about the other half?
I love women's body, and it seems I would need more the five
minutes before I'd stop loving having breasts... And, sometimes, a
penis and a scrotum are so inconvenient... I cannot feel what you
feel, but it seems to me that I would like it more than you do.
“Peeing obviously became different, but you'd be surprised how
small the actual sensory difference is”
I know that the urethra's first part is the same in both sexes, and
I suspect to relief feeling is the same. But men feel the urine
flow in the penis, and we all agree it is more convenient to be
able to easily pee standing up. Long lines to ladies' rooms is also
certainly a problem, as the hygiene point the OP's author wrote
about (“Some things are mostly just inconvenient - men really do have it
better when it comes to the mechanics of personal hygiene. A penis
is a lot more efficient.”
)
Did you have to live as a woman
before surgery? If so, what does this mean in fact?
The OP's author wrote: “People treat me in ways I haven’t experienced since I was in high
school - being condescending, acting superior, and not taking me
seriously.”
Did you experience something like that?
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #31 |
more the five minutes -> more than five minutes
and I suspect to relief feeling -> and I suspect therelief
feeling
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From: Bodyswap1
, 106 months, post #32 |
(KJ) Do you have a picture of yourself so I can see what you look
like as a woman now.
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #33 |
Bodyswap1, this is not KJ's story, but "one I came across that I copied and saved, so can answer no
questions about it"
, as KJ wrote.
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From: Bodyswap1
, 106 months, post #34 |
Okay.
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #35 |
I hope Kathie and Hysteria will add some input.
But I agree with Hysteria about prepping up on mornings: I know of
no ciswoman who needs an hour.
Another intimate question to Hysteria. You wrote: “I did have sort of an "AHHH" reaction for a while every time I put
on underwear and was struck by the fact that there was nothing
there, though I wouldn't really describe it as a positive feeling,
just surprise. Like, my brain hadn't quite caught up.”
Did you ever have this phantom limb
feeling amputees often report?
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #36 |
To everyone: is there really “nothing there”,
as Hysteria wrote, or is there female sexual organs, with labia, a
clitoris, the opening to the vagina?
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From: guest (tsn)
, 106 months, post #37 |
Out of interest, how many autogynephilics here think they
experience gender dysphoria? I experience it, but I identify as
genderqueer. For me, though my fetish started with TG, it's moved
on to just being transformations in general. I read and look at TG
stuff more, but I'm not sure whether it makes me more aroused than
other TF stuff. That being said, I only really like TFs happening
to women or a TG transformation happening to men.
|
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From: Forestier
, 106 months, post #38 |
Please define genderqueer
.
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From: cj
, 106 months, post #39 |
" is there really �nothing there�, as Hysteria wrote, or is there
female sexual organs, with labia, a clitoris, the opening to the
vagina?"
I suppose that depends on the "end point" for each individual who
has to deal with the dysphoria of having a wrong-gendered body.
For those who choose the surgical correction of the genital area, I
believe that most surgeons now, will try to make the area appear as
if the woman was born with the correct anatomy. So she would
generally have a clitoris, and labia covering the opening to a
vaginal cavity... just like any other average woman. Unfortunately
(or fortunately, depending on your PoV), that's where the the
"female sexual organs" stop, she won't have the cervix, uterus,
fallopian tubes, or ovaries (and no menstrual periods) nor will she
have the correct pelvis structure to bear a child.
"... how many autogynephilics here think they experience gender
dysphoria?"
I used to think that perhaps I did... then I was certain that it
was just a strong curiosity... now... well, now, I'm not sure that
there isn't something else besides just curiosity. Currently
seeking more specialized profession opinions... just to be sure.
I still don't really feel like a woman trapped in a man's body
though. ~shrug~
"... I experience it, but I identify as genderqueer..."
I may be close to that myself, if not for a few things... I'm
nowhere close enough to androgynous or feminine-looking / acting to
pull-off either androgynous, ambiguous, or feminine... I live in a
small conservative town / region, so it probably would be neither
safe nor smart to either try or push the conventions... and I'm
getting too old to care.
I'm not sure if I'd rather blur the line, or be able to easily and
freely dance across it whenever I'd like. If shape-shifting was a
reality for me... I'd probably be in heaven.
"Please define genderqueer."
"a person who does not subscribe to conventional gender
distinctions but identifies with neither, both, or a combination of
male and female genders."
-- courtesy of Google
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From: guest (Hysteria)
, 106 months, post #40 |
What the hell, this is all anonymous anyway.
"Although I find it strange men don't stare at you. Nearly all women
say it happens to them.
" >>
I didn't say that, just that men rarely stare at my breasts and I
don't notice it super often. This probably has a lot to do with how
you dress, but I feel like the average person has more shame then a
lot of people give them credit for.
"Were you attracted to women when you were a man? Did you make love
with women before the change? How do you feel and live sexual
attraction now?"
>>
I never had sex prior to my transition, and though I would have
described myself as attracted to women, most of it still linked
back into my fetish to some extent. "I wish I was her", etc. It
really is hard to tell where that begun and dysphoria ended.
Nowadays I think I feel a more conventional attraction to women and
even men in a few cases, since I look at people in a less gendered
way. But I'm still unable to rouse myself to orgasm without
consuming niche content.
"What about the other half?
I love women's body, and it seems I would need more the five
minutes before I'd stop loving having breasts... And, sometimes, a
penis and a scrotum are so inconvenient... I cannot feel what you
feel, but it seems to me that I would like it more than you do."
I'm not you, so I can't say how you'd react, but having breasts
lost all novelty very fast. If I were to bet, I'd say you're
probably interested in them because they represent sex with women,
or are something incomprehensible that represents the other genders
exclusive-ness to you. But once you have them on yourself, they
loose all mystique instantly and just become annoying lumps of fat
that hurt a lot in cold weather. It's the old
toy-in-the-shop-window thing. The idea is more gratifying then the
reality.
It is easier to get comfortable without a penis, though.
"I know that the urethra's first part is the same in both sexes,
and I suspect to relief feeling is the same. But men feel the urine
flow in the penis, and we all agree it is more convenient to be
able to easily pee standing up. Long lines to ladies' rooms is also
certainly a problem, as the hygiene point the OP's author wrote
about."
>>
This will sound stupid, but you don't feel your penis as much as
you think. Most of the nerves are focused on responding to outside
stimulus for obvious reasons; Your brain glosses over the internal
stuff a lot. Next time you go to the bathroom, sit down to pee
instead of standing, and try to think hard about what you're
actually feeling without looking down. You might find yourself able
to forget it's even there.
Peeing standing up is a little more convenient, but to be honest it
feels super gross to me in retrospect. You get piss on your
hands/the seat/the floor so often, and often have to do it in super
uncomfortable semi-public spaces. It's not really worth the
trouble. I think even if I magically turned back into a guy today I
wouldn't do it again.
I haven't noticed the bathroom thing too much except at old people
restaurants, though again, I'm not super outgoing.
"Did you have to live as a woman before surgery? If so, what does
this mean in fact?"
>>
You're talking about the real life test, an idea from orthodox
transgender psychology that today is followed with varying degrees
of looseness. Basically, most reputable surgeons (read: the ones
you want anywhere near your junk) require a note from your
psychologist saying, "Hey, this persons really transgender" so they
have something to stick at you if you're unhappy afterwards and try
to sue them. Psychologists will only give them this, however, once
you've spent a year living as the opposite gender. You can read
more about it here, if you want.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-life_experience_%28transgender%29
By the time I started living as a woman full time, I'd already had
facial surgery and been on hormones for nearly a year, so it wasn't
really a big deal. It just meant dressing female, using my current
name, etc.
"Did you ever have this phantom limb feeling amputees often
report?"
>>
No, that isn't what I meant. A phantom limb is caused by the brain
trying to compensate for information that's not coming from lost
nerves. Since the nerves are still there, I don't have that
problem. What I was referring to was just an expectations thing,
like trying to sit down in a chair while forgetting it had been
moved to the other room. That moment of confusion and surrealness.
"is there really “nothing there”, as Hysteria wrote, or is there
female sexual organs, with labia, a clitoris, the opening to the
vagina?"
I was speaking hyperbolically. Post-operative vaginas look and
function, with the exception of lubrication with some surgical
methods, exactly the same as regular ones. Which is logical,
considering all penis's start off as vaginas in the womb and just
rearrange themselves.
Autogynephilia
>>
You probably shouldn't use that term. It's a super loaded and
medically discredited idea that was used to lock MtF's attracted to
women out of transition until the 90s. If you're looking for
something to call people who transitioned for kink-related reasons
like I did, "stupid" would probably be better, though ultimately I
think I did the right thing for the wrong reasons.
It also seems a bit weird to apply it to me but explicitly not the
OP. My motivations may have been impure, but they sound a lot more
sexually into mundane day to day stuff than I do.
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- Please do not stray (far) from the topic of the original post.
- If a poster provides their contact information for any reason, do
NOT clutter the Message Board by asking them to contact you. They
gave out their contact information for a reason.
- No begging. Ask nicely.
- Do not feed the trolls and spammers. Please ignore them.
- Do not keep asking for clips after others have already posted
information on where to obtain the material.
- Please have some patience. Not everyone visits the board daily.
Your post may not be seen (by someone with the correct information
or idea) for several days or weeks.
- No bumping. Bumping will be treated as intentional spamming.
Advertising
- Do not post advertisements.
- One exception is for products or services that relate to entries on
this site. And even then, only post an announcement once. You
should add links or content to the appropriate database entries. Do
not repeat this information to the message board. Doing so will be
considered spamming.
Miscellaneous
- This list is neither all-inclusive or all-exclusive in nature, and
is meant to guide everyone on appropriate content for and conduct
on this Message Board.
- The purpose of this Message Board is to share information about
transformation-related content, news, ideas, etc. Also acceptable,
are conversations that are of interest to the transformation
community.
- Moderation of posts for reasons not listed above are at the
discretion of the Trusted Users who moderate this website, for the
purpose of keeping things within the "spirit" of the owner's wishes
and the website's purpose.
- If you disagree with a moderation decision, please make an argument
as to why it should be reinstated. Use the posting guidelines to justify your point.
Do not attack the moderator.
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