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From: guest (anon for the 4th time)
, 90 months, post #21 |
"For me, though, the biggest problem was that the script is so
misogynistic. The writers (both men?) really seem not to like
women"
Hi, I'm the anon from the three previous posts prior to yours and I
think I can answer the too misogynistic angle.
Allow me to preface this by again saying that I liked the movie and
it has crossed my mind many times since viewing it the previous
evening. I think the writers' conception of Sam was that not only
didn't he like women he also didn't like himself to the point of
self-loathing, and forgive me as this may be a stretch: I think
they might have been trying to imply that Sam's reason for that was
his suppressed homosexuality. Though you fast-forwarded, there were
scenes where he treated his male friends like shit (always over the
women in their lives) which in retrospect perhaps belays jealousy.
It also explains Samantha's relatively easy acceptance of her
sexuality vis-à-vis Doc. In fact, as I type this, I'd bet that's
what they were hoping to achieve, or, perhaps that's mere whimsy?
Either way, I'm going to watch it again.
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From: guest (anon for the 5th time)
, 90 months, post #22 |
Oh dear, another edit : (
'implies' rather than 'belays'
Sorry
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From: guest (misogynistic)
, 90 months, post #23 |
problem with sam being homosexual is that the writers are still at
blame, because sexual orientation doesn't have anything to do with
gender identity. A gay man switching bodies with a woman would
still feel bad, or even worse than before.
only way to normally function would be if sam was genderfluid and
pansexual. but then again this is just a cheap movie using the old
tired sex tropes, so I wouldn't read too much into it. Of course is
gonna show misogyny!
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From: guest (anon 6th)
, 90 months, post #24 |
"A gay man switching bodies with a woman would still feel bad, or
even worse than before."
Which of course is an excellent (and correct IMHO) point to raise.
Yet, were this fantastical experience to actually happen what I
suggested is at the very least in the realm of possible outcomes,
any of which could be made to work. I suppose it comes down to the
suspension of disbelief which is already hard to do in movies like
this and Goodbye Charlie, Switch...
Lalola, perhaps because of its length, succeeded best at this I
think.
More than likely is that I'm an effeminate sub gay male who
wouldn't at all mind that happening to me even though I've never
been overtly trans. I know it makes me a member of a small
minority. If there's reincarnation and I could choose a gender it
wouldn't be the one I currently occupy.
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From: guest (guessed)
, 90 months, post #25 |
The misogyny about which I was complaining was the portrayal of
(almost) every woman other than Sam in the movie.
Click to show spoiler
Qbp'f tveysevraq, gur tbyq-qvttvat uneevqna, gur lnggrevat jbzra ng
gur nqwnprag gnoyr va gur bcravat fprar (naq ntnva va gur fprar
jurer Fnz ernyvmr gung fur "fcrnxf jbzna"), rgp. Gur fbccl naq
fnccl nffvfgnag zbbavat bire gur frkvfg nff bs n obff jub gnxrf
perqvg sbe ure jbex juvyr fgevatvat ure nybat jvgu unys-urnegrq
cebzvfrf bs ebznagvp vagrerfg. Ncneg sebz gur bssvpr znantre va gur
fghcvqyl gvtug qerff (V guvax) jub xvaq bs qvfnccrnef bhg bs gur
zbivr (V guvax), gurer nera'g ernyyl nal yvxrnoyr be rira
erpbtavmnoyl uhzna jbzra va gur zbivr
It gets worse
Click to show spoiler
Gur fprar jurer Fnz funerf ure jvfqbz jvgu gur arj oevqr vf gur
snagnfl bs rirel ynq jub jnf rire fubg qbja ol n jbzna jub qvqa'g
snyy va yvar jvgu uvf cynaf sbe ure yvsr/ "Vs bayl fur jbhyq
haqrefgnaq ubj zra ERNYYL ner, fur'q ernyvmr gung fur fubhyq jnag
sebz zr gur guvatf V nz jvyyvat gb tvir ure..." Vg vf n 16 lrne byq
obl'f vqrn bs jvaavat na nethzrag gung ab bar ryfr vf univat
Overall, the movie felt like the movie the work of people incapable
of imagining the event that is central to the plot -- incapable of
empathizing with women.
There were so many missed opportunities
Click to show spoiler
Ubj zhpu orggre jbhyq vg unir orra vs Fnz unq gnxr urefrys gb gur
vzntr pbafhygnag. Vs, ng svefg, fur jrag orpnhfr fur pbhyqa'g
svther bhg gur pybgurf, unve, be znxr-hc (Va zl irefvba, n pbygvfu
zbqry sebz gur ntrapl ynhtuf ng ure rneyl nggrzcgf gb qerff
urefrys. Fnz erzrzoref gung ur'q frag gung fnzr lbhat jbzna gb na
vzntr pbafhygnag gb yrna ubj gb jnyx va urryf -- naq fu fur znxrf
gur nccbvagzrag). Gur "tvey yrffbaf" sebz n tnl zna ghea bhg gb or
nobhg zber guna pybgurf naq unve, naq -- sbe gur svefg gvzr va uvf
yvsr -- fur ohvyqf n sevraqfuvc onfrq ba fbzrguvat zber graqre naq
cebsbhaq guna gur "oeb pbqr"
But again, that would have required the writers and director to
understand that other people have internal lives.
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From: Air Gear
, 90 months, post #26 |
"A gay man switching bodies with a woman would still feel bad, or
even worse than before."
Disclaimer up front: I now work on the following thing I'm going to
talk about but almost this exact dilemma comes up in this webcomic
long before I even knew it existed and it's even specifically
stated that having this happen is not a solution. I bring it up
because it seems relevant here, given the discussion.
(Page 1)
www.exiern.com/2005/09/06/so-far/
The pages in question don't come up until the end of November 2013,
though there are lots of scenes previously that make a lot more
sense once these ones have been read (even as far back as when it
started in 2005), so the makers can't be accused of springing it
out of nowhere either.
The people making it can't be accused of rushing a resolution
either given that it's in its 12th year and almost 800 pages so far
with no solution to this dilemma for the character in question. I
work on the promotional side of things so have no input or
foreknowledge of what's going to happen. If anything, I haven't
read, nor do I have any knowledge of what's happened since November
last year (no time). I might have some time to catch up in
November, though.
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From: Air Gear
, 90 months, post #27 |
Oh hell, here's that link again:
http://www.exiern.com/2005/09/06/so-far/
(works this time - remember http:// first)
Also, alternate spin on this, what does it make you if something
like happens and you've had your memory wiped of who you used to
be.
http://extra.exiern.com/comic/dark-reflections-00/
I mean a comparable example, the lead character in the Portuguese
Lalola (Ele e Ela), never gives up trying to get back to how he was
(depending on which ending you pick) but there is one brief period
of time where he forgets his identity because of a concussion. Even
his internal male voice during this period of time changes to his
female external one during this period of time.
So until he gets his memory back, what would you say the character
is he or she? (which is almost actually the title of the show, how
clever is that? Not really? Oh, OK then).
|
From: guest (KJ)
, 90 months, post #28 |
One thing to keep in mind, if there were an actual man like Sam who
was changed into an actual woman like Samantha, who then over the
months tried to adapt into society as her. The day to day changes
in life from what she had known are just too much to put into a
movie.
The viewer is left to fill gaps on their own.
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From: guest (guessed)
, 90 months, post #29 |
Per KJ #28 "The day to day changes in life from what she had known
are just too much to put into a movie"
Yeah -- but that's true of every movie. Movies are condensed,
compressed, edited. The director, cinematographer, and editor make
choices to direct the gaze and attention of the viewer, so it is
the selection
of events to portray that is telling. The "auteurs" responsible
for this mess are susceptible to criticism for the choices they
made.
No, the more I think about this movie the less I want to think
about it. It is a poorly executed attempt at a badly conceived
rehash of Switch (which was an ill-advised remake of Goodby
Charlie). It portrays over-privileged people behaving in the ways
that people only every behaved in exploitation movies from the
1980s. It is dated, misogynist, and puerile. The actress who played
Samantha is appealing, and I will look for her in something better,
but the rest of the movie will sink in to well-deserved obscurity.
|
From: Air Gear
, 90 months, post #30 |
Well, here's Natalie Knepp in Alto ...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1577040/
The director of Alto's life story is certainly interesting too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/transitioning-in-plight-f_b_8143086
|
From: cj
, 90 months, post #31 |
Let's keep this thread strictly about REVIEWS
for the movie Sam
please.
For other discussion about the movie, please use the "Sam (2016)"
thread.
Thank you.
|
From: guest (frank sm3)
, 90 months, post #32 |
Message deleted by cj. Not a review, please the post directly preceding this one. Please keep use this thread FOR REVIEWS ONLY, follow the link in post 31 for other discussion about this movie. Thank you. |
From: guest (BillCipher)
, 90 months, post #33 |
Okay so i just finished watching Sam for myself and i gotta say
without spoilers.
Most of the critics are right. the editing felt strange, mostly
with the black fade outs.
some scenes i question why they were there to begin with s it felt
like it didn't progress the story enough. I also felt like an
epilogue should have been given at the end of the film.
altogether the story is "okay" it's not a masterpiece but it has
good moments and nice idas, personally i feel like if it got a
second chance and maybe a bigger studio behind it the story could
have been better, but for what it's worth it's a nice flick, not
something you'd want to spend a movie ticket for but a nice rental
or purchase to watch at home.
also Natalie Knepp was what kept me in the film, her acting was
good for this role and i did get the feeling of a man trapped in a
woman's body while she was on screen. She is elegant in both looks
and acting and i definitely would like to see her in more roles.
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