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Review: "Sam" (2016)
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From: guest (anon for the 4th time) , 90 months, post #21
"For me, though, the biggest problem was that the script is so misogynistic. The writers (both men?) really seem not to like women"

Hi, I'm the anon from the three previous posts prior to yours and I think I can answer the too misogynistic angle.

Allow me to preface this by again saying that I liked the movie and it has crossed my mind many times since viewing it the previous evening. I think the writers' conception of Sam was that not only didn't he like women he also didn't like himself to the point of self-loathing, and forgive me as this may be a stretch: I think they might have been trying to imply that Sam's reason for that was his suppressed homosexuality. Though you fast-forwarded, there were scenes where he treated his male friends like shit (always over the women in their lives) which in retrospect perhaps belays jealousy. It also explains Samantha's relatively easy acceptance of her sexuality vis-à-vis Doc. In fact, as I type this, I'd bet that's what they were hoping to achieve, or, perhaps that's mere whimsy? Either way, I'm going to watch it again.

From: guest (anon for the 5th time) , 90 months, post #22
Oh dear, another edit : (
'implies' rather than 'belays'
Sorry

From: guest (misogynistic) , 90 months, post #23
problem with sam being homosexual is that the writers are still at blame, because sexual orientation doesn't have anything to do with gender identity. A gay man switching bodies with a woman would still feel bad, or even worse than before.

only way to normally function would be if sam was genderfluid and pansexual. but then again this is just a cheap movie using the old tired sex tropes, so I wouldn't read too much into it. Of course is gonna show misogyny!


From: guest (anon 6th) , 90 months, post #24
"A gay man switching bodies with a woman would still feel bad, or even worse than before."

Which of course is an excellent (and correct IMHO) point to raise. Yet, were this fantastical experience to actually happen what I suggested is at the very least in the realm of possible outcomes, any of which could be made to work. I suppose it comes down to the suspension of disbelief which is already hard to do in movies like this and Goodbye Charlie, Switch...
Lalola, perhaps because of its length, succeeded best at this I think.
More than likely is that I'm an effeminate sub gay male who wouldn't at all mind that happening to me even though I've never been overtly trans. I know it makes me a member of a small minority. If there's reincarnation and I could choose a gender it wouldn't be the one I currently occupy.


From: guest (guessed) , 90 months, post #25
The misogyny about which I was complaining was the portrayal of (almost) every woman other than Sam in the movie.

Click to show spoiler
Qbp'f tveysevraq, gur tbyq-qvttvat uneevqna, gur lnggrevat jbzra ng gur nqwnprag gnoyr va gur bcravat fprar (naq ntnva va gur fprar jurer Fnz ernyvmr gung fur "fcrnxf jbzna"), rgp. Gur fbccl naq fnccl nffvfgnag zbbavat bire gur frkvfg nff bs n obff jub gnxrf perqvg sbe ure jbex juvyr fgevatvat ure nybat jvgu unys-urnegrq cebzvfrf bs ebznagvp vagrerfg. Ncneg sebz gur bssvpr znantre va gur fghcvqyl gvtug qerff (V guvax) jub xvaq bs qvfnccrnef bhg bs gur zbivr (V guvax), gurer nera'g ernyyl nal yvxrnoyr be rira erpbtavmnoyl uhzna jbzra va gur zbivr

It gets worse

Click to show spoiler
Gur fprar jurer Fnz funerf ure jvfqbz jvgu gur arj oevqr vf gur snagnfl bs rirel ynq jub jnf rire fubg qbja ol n jbzna jub qvqa'g snyy va yvar jvgu uvf cynaf sbe ure yvsr/ "Vs bayl fur jbhyq haqrefgnaq ubj zra ERNYYL ner, fur'q ernyvmr gung fur fubhyq jnag sebz zr gur guvatf V nz jvyyvat gb tvir ure..." Vg vf n 16 lrne byq obl'f vqrn bs jvaavat na nethzrag gung ab bar ryfr vf univat

Overall, the movie felt like the movie the work of people incapable of imagining the event that is central to the plot -- incapable of empathizing with women.

There were so many missed opportunities

Click to show spoiler
Ubj zhpu orggre jbhyq vg unir orra vs Fnz unq gnxr urefrys gb gur vzntr pbafhygnag. Vs, ng svefg, fur jrag orpnhfr fur pbhyqa'g svther bhg gur pybgurf, unve, be znxr-hc (Va zl irefvba, n pbygvfu zbqry sebz gur ntrapl ynhtuf ng ure rneyl nggrzcgf gb qerff urefrys. Fnz erzrzoref gung ur'q frag gung fnzr lbhat jbzna gb na vzntr pbafhygnag gb yrna ubj gb jnyx va urryf -- naq fu fur znxrf gur nccbvagzrag). Gur "tvey yrffbaf" sebz n tnl zna ghea bhg gb or nobhg zber guna pybgurf naq unve, naq -- sbe gur svefg gvzr va uvf yvsr -- fur ohvyqf n sevraqfuvc onfrq ba fbzrguvat zber graqre naq cebsbhaq guna gur "oeb pbqr"

But again, that would have required the writers and director to understand that other people have internal lives.




From: Air Gear , 90 months, post #26
"A gay man switching bodies with a woman would still feel bad, or even worse than before."

Disclaimer up front: I now work on the following thing I'm going to talk about but almost this exact dilemma comes up in this webcomic long before I even knew it existed and it's even specifically stated that having this happen is not a solution. I bring it up because it seems relevant here, given the discussion.

(Page 1)

www.exiern.com/2005/09/06/so-far/

The pages in question don't come up until the end of November 2013, though there are lots of scenes previously that make a lot more sense once these ones have been read (even as far back as when it started in 2005), so the makers can't be accused of springing it out of nowhere either.

The people making it can't be accused of rushing a resolution either given that it's in its 12th year and almost 800 pages so far with no solution to this dilemma for the character in question. I work on the promotional side of things so have no input or foreknowledge of what's going to happen. If anything, I haven't read, nor do I have any knowledge of what's happened since November last year (no time). I might have some time to catch up in November, though.



From: Air Gear , 90 months, post #27
Oh hell, here's that link again:

http://www.exiern.com/2005/09/06/so-far/

(works this time - remember http:// first)

Also, alternate spin on this, what does it make you if something like happens and you've had your memory wiped of who you used to be.

http://extra.exiern.com/comic/dark-reflections-00/

I mean a comparable example, the lead character in the Portuguese Lalola (Ele e Ela), never gives up trying to get back to how he was (depending on which ending you pick) but there is one brief period of time where he forgets his identity because of a concussion. Even his internal male voice during this period of time changes to his female external one during this period of time.

So until he gets his memory back, what would you say the character is he or she? (which is almost actually the title of the show, how clever is that? Not really? Oh, OK then).

From: guest (KJ) , 90 months, post #28
One thing to keep in mind, if there were an actual man like Sam who was changed into an actual woman like Samantha, who then over the months tried to adapt into society as her. The day to day changes in life from what she had known are just too much to put into a movie.

The viewer is left to fill gaps on their own.



From: guest (guessed) , 90 months, post #29
Per KJ #28 "The day to day changes in life from what she had known are just too much to put into a movie"

Yeah -- but that's true of every movie. Movies are condensed, compressed, edited. The director, cinematographer, and editor make choices to direct the gaze and attention of the viewer, so it is the selection of events to portray that is telling. The "auteurs" responsible for this mess are susceptible to criticism for the choices they made.

No, the more I think about this movie the less I want to think about it. It is a poorly executed attempt at a badly conceived rehash of Switch (which was an ill-advised remake of Goodby Charlie). It portrays over-privileged people behaving in the ways that people only every behaved in exploitation movies from the 1980s. It is dated, misogynist, and puerile. The actress who played Samantha is appealing, and I will look for her in something better, but the rest of the movie will sink in to well-deserved obscurity.

From: Air Gear , 90 months, post #30
Well, here's Natalie Knepp in Alto ...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1577040/

The director of Alto's life story is certainly interesting too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/transitioning-in-plight-f_b_8143086

From: cj , 90 months, post #31
Let's keep this thread strictly about REVIEWS for the movie Sam please.

For other discussion about the movie, please use the "Sam (2016)" thread.

Thank you.

From: guest (frank sm3) , 90 months, post #32
Message deleted by cj. Not a review, please the post directly preceding this one. Please keep use this thread FOR REVIEWS ONLY, follow the link in post 31 for other discussion about this movie. Thank you.
From: guest (BillCipher) , 90 months, post #33
Okay so i just finished watching Sam for myself and i gotta say without spoilers.

Most of the critics are right. the editing felt strange, mostly with the black fade outs.
some scenes i question why they were there to begin with s it felt like it didn't progress the story enough. I also felt like an epilogue should have been given at the end of the film.

altogether the story is "okay" it's not a masterpiece but it has good moments and nice idas, personally i feel like if it got a second chance and maybe a bigger studio behind it the story could have been better, but for what it's worth it's a nice flick, not something you'd want to spend a movie ticket for but a nice rental or purchase to watch at home.

also Natalie Knepp was what kept me in the film, her acting was good for this role and i did get the feeling of a man trapped in a woman's body while she was on screen. She is elegant in both looks and acting and i definitely would like to see her in more roles.

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