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From: guest
, 98 months, post #121 |
I like the theory about Gi-Tak coming back as the real Hong Nan
because that gives him a much happier ending than just being
completely erased from everyone's memory and going to Heaven or I
guess being erased from history in its entirety.
However, I am a little confused. If Gi-Tak is really in real Hong
Han's body, then what about his sexuality and preference? Is he
going to fall for the real Lee Hae Joon? And if he's Gi-Tak in that
cute female body, why isn't he going to Yi Yeon to talk to her? Did
Gi-Tak's memory get messed up in the reincarnation?
Like I said, it makes sense because it looked like he purposely
bumped into the real Lee Hae Joon and he also dug his pants out of
his butt like Gi-Tak did when he was Hong Nan the first time.
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #122 |
Well, my guesses to post 120 are, starting with the seemingly
easiest one:
When Heaven deletes someone, I imagine if they had the power to do
that, they also have to reshuffle history to cover up the hole
their removal leaves. In the case of Seung Jae, he no longer lived
through the chain of events that ended up with him being in that
alley to be stabbed. They made a point of still making sure Na Seok
Cheol died though because they still knew he did all those bad
things in one version of the timeline even if they were now erasing
it. They still wanted to have words with him.
Yi Yeon's career, seems like the removal of Han Gi Tak from her
life lead to a chain of events that made things less hostile in her
break up of her marriage like the post said. Cha Jae Guk seemed to
get most enraged in relation to Han Gi Tak as evidenced by his
reaction to that photograph of her with Han Gi Tak which he totally
was manipulated into misinterpreting just before his Han Gi Tak's
death in that car crash in a now deleted timeline.
In fact, with the removal of Han Gi Tak, almost everyone seems to
have had better lives and outcomes. Poor guy.
Now as for the doppelganger ... well that's worth a post on its
own. Probably going to be more or less the same as what you've got
there though.
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #123 |
"1. Who is Hong Nan doppelganger? Is she related to Gi Tak?
Yes, I think she is Gi Tak. This girl wasn't shown to be existed in
the original timeline where Gi Tak exists. So, she probably only
exists in the new timeline where Gi Tak doesn't exist. It's
reasonable to assume that the non-existence of Gi Tak lead to
several changes in this new timeline (more of the changes below).
So, one of the changes that the non-existence of Gi Tak bring about
is that this girl, who otherwise would not be born in the original
timeline, was born in the new timeline. The soul assigned to this
body is the soul which would otherwise be assigned to Gi Tak. Since
he was never born in this timeline, the soul was assigned to this
girl instead. There are enough hints being thrown that this girl is
Gi Tak inside. The way she adjusts her dress etc."
It's a bit ambiguous as they never outright state what's going on
but I can't really argue with this one at all. It really seems to
fit.
Yi Yeon obviously won't remember anything about Han Gi Tak now
because this time around she never met him because he never
existed. Presumably the "doppelganger" had a whole new life that
actually started from birth and was lived through normally and
wouldn't remember or know Yi Yeon either as technically once again
it now never happened. Presumably, they'll all get their memories
of the previous timeline back in the afterlife.
Another interesting point to make is that Rain's character Kim
Young Soo breaks the rule first but they're able to stop time and
give him a warning to not do it again. Which makes you wonder *why*
is it a rule since they can suspend it like that and then wind it
back. Seems a bit drastic. Also as I guessed a while back and
posted, if someone else works it out like what happened right at
the end just as Kim Young Soo leaves for the last time, this
penalty doesn't apply.
Also worth wondering if Han Gi Tak deliberately broke the rules
because he'd worked out it really would be better for everyone if
he'd never been in their lives. Fortunately/unfortunately for him,
it seems he was quite right. It was a very selfless thing of him to
do, so I like to believe that everything above about the
doppelganger is absolutely correct. Everything seems to lean
heavily in that direction, it certainly doesn't contradict that so
I'm happy with thinking this.
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From: guest (Ray)
, 97 months, post #124 |
Guest 121: I think Guest 123 answered your question.
Guest 122: I guess you are right. This being supernatural drama
rather than science fiction, so "Heaven's will" is rather legit
excuse to explain away the grandpa paradox.
Guest 123: Yeah, I think you are right. I agree that they don't
have the memory of the old timeline, but it seems like they have
some kind of deja vu when they meet someone they once knew in the
original timeline. It also seems that the attraction that the Hong
Nan doppelganger feels towards real Hae Joon comes partly from that
deja vu. I think the kiss scene outside hotel room from the first
day of Young Soo/Gi Tak return to life, in which Hong Nan feels
attracted to fake Hae Joon (before she knew it was Young Soo
inside), is kinda foreshadowing it. It was implying that this is
the type of guy which Gi Tak's soul in female body would feel
attracted. So it makes sense that in the new timeline she once
again fall for a guy with similar face (and body, lol), This time
the feeling might even be stronger because of her deja vu.
On whey they stopped Young Soo from breaking the rule but didn't do
the same with Gi Tak, my own theory is that
1. Young Soo didn't know the consequences when he was about to
reveal himself. So they told him what would have happen if he do
it. By contrast Gi Tak already know it because Young Soo told him
about it.
2. Young Soo made the decision in emotional state, Gi Tak probably
think rationally about his decision. That's why they allow him to
proceed with it.
3. Maybe they also know that non-existence of Gi Tak would lead to
better outcome?
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #125 |
About:
1. + 2. That's true but it means they have the means to reverse it
if they wanted. It's not like an immutable law of physics they have
no control over (eg: drop something at ground level and it will
fall).
I added a sort of to be continued but it is isn't obvious, I'm 122
and 123 (and a lot of the ones beforehand actually).
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #126 |
So if Gi-Tak is in the real Hong Nan's body, does he remember
anything about being Gi-Tak? Or is it his soul but it's a blank
slate and has been rewritten to be solely Hong Nan which means not
even Gi-Tak knows he used to be Gi-Tak?
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From: guest (122 and 123 and 125)
, 97 months, post #127 |
In retrospect now that I've thought about it some more, it's
probably going to be left slightly ambiguous which I'm fine with,
we can all fill in our own blanks as we like.
That's definitely the real Lee Jae Hoon while presumably Kim Young
Soo is now in heaven. It would actually make the most sense that
Han Gi Tak went there too even though he was written out of history
on Earth. Doesn't help that they never quite said so as to what
exactly happened to him.
Seems like he would have though, given everything else that
happened and the bodies they occupied was calculated, Maya even
said so right at the start about how it was God who must have made
it for Kim Young Soo to look just like Lee Jae Hoon by overriding
the computer failsafes against duplication, something that didn't
happen with Han Gi Tak.
So who are the doppelgangers? Is it the same person Seung Jae saw
jogging, the one Lee Jae Hoon ran into later except after having a
haircut, or were they two separate people (apparently a few people
who saw the show on Viki said that Seung Jae's mother was Maya, so
possibly she'd died - it was a photo with an infant - and then got
the job in heaven as time moves differently there, she'd been doing
it a very long time.)
So, I guess it could be Han Gi Tak with a new life to replace the
old one in history that got erased getting another spin or a whole
new person (or people) looking just like someone who didn't exist
the first time around (I hope it's the former versus the latter). I
guess maybe if he is getting another go and Kim Young Soo is not,
it's because his life was deleted while Young Soo's is not.
So having a crack at this:
"So if Gi-Tak is in the real Hong Nan's body, does he remember
anything about being Gi-Tak? Or is it his soul but it's a blank
slate and has been rewritten to be solely Hong Nan which means not
even Gi-Tak knows he used to be Gi-Tak?"
If this is the case, seems to be a glimmer of recognition of Lee
Jae Hoon being familiar but not past that as no obvious recognition
and recollection.
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From: guest (Huba)
, 97 months, post #128 |
They didn't show Gi Tak show goes to Heaven... So either Gi Tak
soul got completely erased just like his physical existence, or
like some speculate, his soul was born to a new person in the new
reality who didn't exists in the old reality, who doesn't remember
her old life in the old reality, but nevertheless has some Gi Tak's
traits and even seems to vaguely recognizes Jae Hoon...
Though the show heavily hinted at the latter, I prefer to think it
is the former. I know that is cruel, but rule is rule. He broke it
and it is only fair that he got erased, not only physically but his
spirit as well.
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #129 |
Given that even being evil doesn't get you erased, I personally
can't see that Heaven would just delete someone from all planes of
existence for merely revealing their identity. I agree you can't
rule it out but you can't rule it in either.
Anyway, I like that there's enough ambiguity for multiple
possibilities that the viewer can think of. Since Maya all but said
in an early episode that God overrode the computer to make Kim
Young Soo look just like Lee Hae Joon as opposed to some random new
creation just off the rack, the whole thing seems to have been
orchestrated by the Big Guy upstairs, the Architect himself. So I
like to think he planned for everything includeing what happened to
Han Gi Tak. It just doesn't fit for me that he was obliterated in
this scenario.
So pencil me in for the still exists in some form or other column,
be it Heaven or going around for another spin of the wheel.
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #130 |
To add;
Now You're in Heaven
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n8J4UyAZXE
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #131 |
Maya said to Yong Soo that GiTak went to heaven before and in the
entertainment interview said Oh Yeon (who played Hong Nan) She play
3 in 1 character in the end of drama. I think the girl that real
Lee Hae Joon met isn't reincanation of Gi Tak ( and sport girl on
the bridge isn't GiTak too)
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #132 |
Well, that fits with what I thought was the most likely explanation
as to what happened.
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From: guest (Huba)
, 97 months, post #133 |
Yes, doing evil doesn't get you erased, but you will go to hell,
which is much worse. Rules exist for reasons, I think the
punishment of getting permanently erased for breaking rules is
reasonable. However I must admit that he got born into different
identity in a timeline that he doesn't exist is more likely.
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From: guest (Huba)
, 97 months, post #134 |
I have checked the English, Chinese & Indonesian subs and I am
pretty sure Maya didn't told Young Soo that Gi Tak went to Heaven.
In the English sub, Young Soo said about Gi Tak, "He left in style,
didn't he?" and Maya nodded. In Chinese and Indonesian subs he said
something along the line of "he left peacefully, didn't he?"
Furthermore Gi Tak/Hong Nan left by his soul"disappearing", unlike
Young Soo who left by walking together with Maya. If Gi Tak was
going to Heaven instead of being erased (or, like some people
speculated, reborn to other identity), there is no need for his
soul to disappear instead of just following Maya like Young Soo. So
I am pretty sure he didn't went to heaven.
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #135 |
Kim Young Soo would have disappeared at some point if we kept
following him for long enough. There was no point for Han Gi Tak to
walk anywhere as he was on the roof.
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From: guest (Joe)
, 97 months, post #136 |
I also find it unlikely that Gi Tak went to heaven. They could
shoot a scene where he chat with Maya and Maya asks him whether he
got any regret, just like she did with Young Soo. They could also
shoot a scene where Young Soo meet with Gi Tak on their way to
heaven. That would be reasonable closure if that was the intended
ending.. But they didn't... After all the story was about Gi Tak
and Young Soo and from the beginning it was told in parallel style.
if they end up in similar destination it didn't made sense that it
ends the way it ends
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #137 |
I think the key thing is that whether you take the view that Han Gi
Tak got to Heaven or not, given the way it was presented, I don't
think either side's position can be completely ruled out. Which is
what I like about it, the ending can be what you think it is.
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From: guest (james)
, 97 months, post #138 |
Too much to read. Just came here to know if she had sex in her new
body :)
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #139 |
LMAO! No. South Korea ain't gonna let that happen. Besides, this is
a romantic comedy/dramedy. It's not an HBO type of show. Got to
keep it "wholesome" for the Koreans.
There were some moments in which Gi-Tak was vulnerable in his
female body as Hong Nan and caved to his female body. He kissed his
buddy when they were in the hallway of their hotel and he also
cried to his buddy about being being sad and wanted his buddy to
comfort him.
Personally, my favorite moment is when Hong Nan wanted Lee Hae Joon
to buy her an expensive camera and talked really girly and made a
girly crybaby sound to try to get her way.
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From: guest
, 97 months, post #140 |
I think you want the Go Princess Go thread, 138.
... and that's not a knock, I liked both shows a lot. Thank you
here for drawing my attention to them.
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