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Cisgendered?
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From: guest (lily) , 115 months, post #21

Part of the point of coining "cisgendered" was to excite the irritation of people like "What the Hell".

It is very nearly impossible to examine your own privilege until someone gets in your face about it. What the Hell is unlikely to have his consciousness raised, but watching him get beat up -- or just observing how his comments were not met by a universal cheer of "hear hear" -- might give some other cis- person something to think about.

This is great: Like #3 said, I am fed up with them. If you want to be accepted, keep your shit to yourself and live and let live

We can't keep our sh!t to ourselves, because our sh!t is your shit. Plus which, we are just all "uppity" since Stephen Colbert admitted that thinks Janet Mock is hot.

From: guest (lily) , 115 months, post #22

"excite the irritation" Jeez. Who writes like that? Irritate. We just want to irritate the irritable.

From: guest (What The Hell) , 115 months, post #23

Your shit is my shit? In relation to transgender? No, sorry, that is PC talking. I live in privilege because I am heterosexual? No that is PC talking, and I do not bow to PC

Plenty of blacks resent being called African American. I resent being called an Hispanic American. Should we not speak up about it, or should we bow to PC?

Can I not go to the school and say "I want to speak with my SON", I now am going to be required to say "I want to speak with my Purple Penguin"?

From: guest (lily) , 115 months, post #24

Can I not go to the school and say "I want to speak with my SON", I now am going to be required to say "I want to speak with my Purple Penguin"?

Actually, you will be required to say you want to talk to your red herring.

The training document from Gender Spectrum is here . The suggestion (not a policy mandate, not a directive to school employees, certainly not a requirement for parents) is that teachers...

"...{not} use phrases such as �boys & girls," �you guys,� �ladies and gentlemen, " and similarly gendered expressions to get kids� attention. Instead say things like �calling all readers," or �hey campers" or "could all of the athletes come here." Create classroom names and then ask all of the �purple penguins" to meet at the rug."

I live in privilege because I am heterosexual? Yep. Privilege isn't luxury. It isn't power. It is unearned access to power and it ALWAYS comes at the expense of some one else's freedom, opportunity, or safety. You might be a member of another excluded class, but being straight gives you keys to a club to which openly gay folks cannot belong.

Being cis gives you access to things you don't even know can be take away from you.

Trans folk get killed for being trans , and their killers don't go to prison.

Try this. Type "trans woman" into google's search string field and see what the algorithm suggests to complete the phrase.

Then try it with "hispanic"

From: guest (What The Hell) , 115 months, post #25

But I am not cis. I am a heterosexual male, one who does not care if someone else is homosexual or transgendered.

So if I am in your words, privileged, what do you want to take away from me to make it so I am not? The word heterosexual to describe me?

From: guest (What The Hell) , 115 months, post #26

This is transgender nazism

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/houston/article/City-subpoenas-pastors-sermons-in-equal-rights-5822403.php

From: guest (lily) , 115 months, post #27

So if I am in your words, privileged, what do you want to take away from me to make it so I am not? The word heterosexual to describe me?

Heterosexual describes your sexual preference, not your gender identity.

Cisgendered male or cisman describes you as a person assigned male at birth who identifies as male.

In discussions where it is important wish to indicate that you are not trans. the choices are "cisgendered" or "non-transgendered" or "assigned male at birth".

It takes NOTHING from you to call you cis. It gives people who talk about me a way to acknowledge that my gender identity is authentic and valid. It gives my allies a way to explain that I should be referred to as "her" and "she", and that it is not acceptable to assert that I am not a real woman.

Norms change. The naming of things can help accelerate those changes. Right now the norm is to call Assigned Female at Birth women and Assigned Male at Birth Men "normal" and all others "abnormal". By assigning a prefix to describe a non-trans person there is space for "trans" to be normal. It means that there is way to defend myself when someone in authority tries to pathologize, criminalize, or exploit my gender identity.

This is transgender nazism

Godwin says you lose and I can go to bed.

From: cj , 115 months, post #28

"Male and Female are the only 2 genders that exist..."

You need to experience more of the world and meet new people. You're missing out on many wonderful and exciting cultures. Not to mention that your understanding of human biology is a bit lacking and/or outdated.

Search for "hijra", "eunuchs", "third sex"... also "intersex", "XXY" (ignore the movie for now)... also the etymology of the word "gender".

I found a nice statement somewhere awhile back:
"On nearly every continent, and for all of recorded history, thriving cultures have recognized, revered, and integrated more than two genders. Terms such as transgender and gay are strictly new constructs that assume three things: that there are only two sexes (male/female), as many as two sexualities (gay/straight), and only two genders (man/woman)."
Interesting why we chose to limit ourselves in such a diverse world.

The link in post 26 requires further research about the specifics and details of that ordinance. I'm quite concerned about the subpoenas for the sermons - that's a new one.

Either way, I don't have to look it up tonight to decide whether I would defend or decry the action being taken.

From: guest (What The Hell) , 115 months, post #29

Cisgendered male or cisman describes you as a person assigned male at birth who identifies as male.

In discussions where it is important wish to indicate that you are not trans. the choices are "cisgendered" or "non-transgendered" or "assigned male at birth".

It takes NOTHING from you to call you cis.

If I am born male and identify as male, then I am a male and will be called a male. That sure seems to piss you off.

Who are you to decide it takes nothing fro me? This is exactly what I mean when I say PC nazis. You decide this is what I will be called and I cannot disagree.

From: guest (What The Hell) , 115 months, post #30

I'm quite concerned about the subpoenas for the sermons - that's a new one.

Like redefining what people will be called, just another small step in LGBT nazism

From: guest (lily) , 115 months, post #31

@cj The link in post 26 requires further research about the specifics and details of that ordinance. I'm quite concerned about the subpoenas for the sermons - that's a new one.

A judge will decide the constitutionality of the subpoenas. The subpoenas were issued by the Houston city attorneys, not by an LGBT organization.

The city subpoenas as for" all speeches, presentation, or sermons" in connection with a law suit brought by a group of pastors who allege that the city attorney acted wrongly when he invalidated most of the signatures on petitions to put a referendum to repeal a change in the Equal Rights Ordinance.

The judge who reviews the subpoenas, and the plaintiff's motion to quash, and the motions to quash filed by "friends of the court", will decide if divulging the text of sermons given in a church is an infringement of free speech or free exercise of religion.

These protections may not apply. Not everything said from the pulpit is protected by free exercise (for instance, the free exercise clause would not apply if your sermon called upon your petitioners to commit a crime ; say, by instructing them to forge signatures on a ballot petition).

The city attorney is not, as far as I can tell, trans or gay.

The Mayor of Houston is an openly gay ciswoman.

From: guest (lily) , 115 months, post #32

typos typos typos -- the forum needs an "edit" button.

The city subpoenas as for" all speeches, presentation, or sermons" in connection with a law suit brought by a group of pastors who allege that the city attorney acted wrongly when he invalidated most of the signatures on petitions to put a referendum to repeal a change in the Equal Rights Ordinance on the ballot in the next election"

and

or instance, the free exercise clause would not apply if your sermon called upon your congregants to commit a crime ; say, by instructing them to forge signatures on a ballot petition

There are more things going on here than the question of whether business ought to open their sex-segregated bathrooms to trans people. And, seriously, Godwin's Law .

From: guest (nuke) , 115 months, post #33

Political correctness is ruining the internet.

From: guest (What The Hell) , 115 months, post #34

Lily, Never let the truth get in the way of the LGBT agenda

"They demand that the pastors turn over �all speeches, presentations, or sermons related to HERO , the Petition, Mayor Annise Parker, homosexuality, or gender identity prepared by, delivered by, revised by, or approved by you or in your possession.�

The demand is for much more than the petition. Just a small step in wanting to since anyone who will not fall in line with the nazi like agenda.

And the mayor is a gay woman. Your cis means nothing, other than more you will comply BS.

From: Carlsbad , 115 months, post #35

I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of allowing people to comment here without registration. It seems to attract flamewars like these, in which highly opinionated people repeat themselves and insult each other, with each post bringing more references to your genocidal dictator of choice, and more boldfaced text. I suspect that after some finite number of posts N, all posts beyond that point will look like this:

HITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHILTERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLER

Therefore, in the interests of maintaining an atmosphere of lively, contentious debate, I propose a new topic. Agree or Disagree: the government of Israel should disband and relinquish control of its territories to Palestine. Bonus points will be awarded for linking to unsourced blog posts and Daily Mail articles.

From: cj , 115 months, post #36

@ What The Hell - Are you seriously so incensed to be classified as not only male, but cisgendered male? I guess I still don't get your anger. Nobody is forcing you to use it, unless they are asking you to identify yourself as either transgendered or not in a discussion where such differentiation is needed.

To me, it's not a bad thing. Change and progress is inevitable. ~shrug~

Thank you What The Hell and Lily for elaborating on that Houston issue.

From: guest (lily) , 115 months, post #37

Guest (What the Hell) -- thanks for playing.

The language of the subpoena is broad - presumably so that the respondent cannot withhold the relevant and incriminating documents while claiming to comply with the strict letter of the demand.

"The sermon wasn't about the sin of sodomy, I just happened to remind the good people to go out and sign up all their cousins and uncles and dead grandparents to get the repeal measure on the ballot. And maybe I reminded them that the godless pervert in the mayor's office wants your girl babies to have to go pee pee next to a man in a dress, which --everybody knows -- is what Jesus died to prevent."

One of the
">motions to quash complains about the "overly broad" language.

The subpoena will be reviewed by a judge, who certainly won't be openly trans and very likely won't be openly gay, who will have his or her decision scrutinized by lawyers and other judges and the whole thing will be decided by people who are -- in the overwhelming majority -- not L, G, B, or T.

As it moves through the process, the attorneys defending attorneys will be asked to explain what it is they are trying to find, and then the plaintiffs. It may be that this move, by the Houston City Attorney, was intended to intimidate or discourage the people bringing suit against his office. Or the plaintiffs might really have conspired to commit fraud. Or there might be something else going on here that the lawyers can use to obfuscate and obscure and distract. But it is a political fight that might as well be about parking meters or water bills.

There really isn't an LGBT agenda. In fact, lots of the L folks don't like the T folks at all, and more a few of the G folks would prefer that we not confuse the issue of gay rights by -- I'm not sure what we do that tends to upset the the folks at Human Rights Campaign, except that sometimes gay men do drag and sometimes trans people do drag and it is confusing to the people who don't want to be seen with "that kind" of queer.

Talk amongst yourselves for a while. My local LGBT cell is going to protest a school where the boys aren't even encouraged -- let alone compelled, as required by the agenda -- to wear dresses. I have to go pretend to be outraged about this.

From: cj , 115 months, post #38

"...doubt the wisdom of allowing people to comment here without registration"

Flamewars don't happen too often... and even then - they are sometimes between fairly established members of this community. So even if we only allowed posting by registered members, they'd still be likely to happen. ~shrug~

"... in the interests of maintaining an atmosphere of lively, contentious debate, I propose a new topic..."

As long as it is transformation-related or of interest to the TF community. Sorry, but I'd have to remove the one on the topic you suggested. :-)

I love it when the community discusses things in an intelligent and civil manner. I learn many new things (sometimes even about myself).

That said, there are times when I see posts from someone who for some reason or another isn't quite as adept at voicing their opinion in a way that is easily understood. Sometimes we have to help coax them to elaborate or recount their words in another way that makes it easier to understand what it is that they're trying to say (or why they feel / think a certain way).

It's always helpful when you have an opposing view to provide supporting facts and references.

Sometimes, even in the face of irrefutable facts, some people refuse to budge from their stance or belief. You can't change a person's opinion - that is entirely up to them. The best that we can hope for in any given discussion, is that the we are both the instrument of enlightenment, and that we ourselves are enlightened by the views, opinions, and information shared.

I'm still gleaning information out of this thread. Waiting for an Ah-Ha moment too. ~shrug~

From: guest (What The Hell) , 115 months, post #39

There really isn't an LGBT agenda

Now there is a laugh. Many even say what there agenda is. Currently the agenda on the gay side of it is, bake our cake, arrange our flowers for our wedding or we will sue you.

Right down the road is approaching Churches and saying, perform our marriage ceremony or else.

Again the lawsuit - They demand that the pastors turn over �ALL speeches, presentations, or sermons related to HERO , the Petition, Mayor Annise Parker, homosexuality, or gender identity prepared by, delivered by, revised by, or approved by you or in your possession.

Try and say, oh it is just a lawyer thing trying to get all information, and you scare me at what a sheep you are or how much you scare me in what you are willing to do to get an agenda done.

How soon will it be until we see government offices/schools forced to use the Cis term?

I see a direct relation to all of it.

From: guest (lily) , 115 months, post #40

Goodbye cj, and good luck. Hope you find what need.

-- lily

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