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From: guest (Also Interested)
, 121 months, post #61 |
Guest, I really don't want to come off as patronizing you, but you
are coming off as a little short-sighted. I mean, you just equated
sexuality with sexual activity, and there is a big difference and a
great deal of choice with one and not the other. When men are
attracted to men, they are not making the choice to, but when they
have sex with men, they ARE making the choice to. So you say that
people say they are born that way as if it's a cop out, but what
they are referring to is their attraction to the same sex, NOT the
fact that they have sex with them. After all, it is very possible
for people to be in a relationship without having sex.
Now, when people say they were born that way, it isn't to excuse
themselves from their activity, but to legitimize themselves when
others say it is a choice. More specifically, that they chose to be
in a relationship with someone of the same sex. What is ludicrous
to suggest is that they really have a choice to either be in a same
sex relationship or not, and for what? To appease those that don't
want to see that? Is that really a fair choice, should they have to
decide on that? To nitpick on how they choose to have sex and be in
a relationship, undermines the entire fact that life is full of
choices. You choose to be in the relationships you do, that doesn't
mean you aren't born with certain propensities. I mean, I'm sure
you choose to "follow up" on your little fetishes, but did you
choose them in the first place? Do you have to? No. If someone were
to tell you "why do you do that? It's wrong. You're weird" but you
would say that you just like what you like. The others just don't
do it for you. Did you choose that, or what you say that's just the
way you are?
Let me put it this way. You just said, that men just don't do it
for you. Sounds like a cop-out to me! You aren't even considering a
same-sex relationship, and you are choosing to have sex and
relationships with women. I certainly don't care what you do, why
do you care to have to explain it to everyone? Now do I have to
cater to you and bend over backwards for you just because you
choose to be with an Asian women? Do you see how you come across as
ridiculous?
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From: guest (MasterandCommander)
, 121 months, post #62 |
I see what you did there.
I just want to live in a society where individuality trumps group
mentality. I want to live in a world where we see individuals
instead of groups. I get so tired of all these labels and
groupings. Why do people have to belong to a group? Can't people
just be a free agent or an independent of some sort?
When you start putting people in groups, you create tension,
resentment, jealousy, and hatred. You're creating drama that is not
necessary in my opinion.
Question about the whole "born this way" defense or whatever you
want to call it, why does a gay human have to say that or use that
defense in order to legitimatize their gayness? That sounds like
insecurity and shame to me. If being gay is normal, then there
should be no insecurity, shame, or excuses. Be gay and shut up
about it. So what, you're gay? What's the big deal? You want a
cookie?
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From: guest (contortionist)
, 121 months, post #63 |
just want to live in a society where individuality trumps group
mentality. I want to live in a world where we see individuals
instead of groups. I get so tired of all these labels and
groupings. Why do people have to belong to a group? Can't people
just be a free agent or an independent of some sort?
I think I know why our guest complains about having to "bend over
backwards"; his view of the world is upside-down and backwards.
LGBTQ organizations exist because there is strength, and increased
safety, in numbers.
And where, I wonder, would you draw the line on "labels and
groupings"? Are nations okay? Corporations? Small businesses?
Sports teams? Book clubs?
Question about the whole "born this way" defense or whatever you
want to call it, why does a gay human have to say that or use that
defense in order to legitimatize their gayness?
Tell us again, when did you decide
to be straight?
If being gay is normal, then there should be no insecurity, shame,
or excuses. Be gay and shut up about it. So what, you're gay?
What's the big deal? You want a cookie?
I am surprised that no one has pointed out to you that gay, trans,
and queer people are subject to shaming and exclusion and violence
from people whether or not they are out... oh, wait, this whole
thread ... never mind. You just don't, or won't, get it.
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From: guest (Also Interested)
, 121 months, post #64 |
People explain themselves because people question and doubt them.
Things don't just change because people stop caring. They defend
themselves because people attack them. They fight to be normal
because they aren't treated normal. They grow up in a society that
is so far from what they want the world to be like, that they have
to change it, starting with a change within themselves, and that's
pride in themselves. The world that you wish for, does not come on
it's own. People WERE just trying to be gay and live and they get
burned alive (Stonewall) or dragged behind a truck and tied up to a
fence post to bleed to death. Being gay is normal, but the shame
and insecurities only go away when they accept themselves and are
able to defend themselves by saying they are normal, when everyone
else says they aren't. You act like people are acting a certain way
completely unprovoked, no, it is the only necessary way to bring
about change.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #65 |
Why do you have to fight to be normal? Because of what stupid
society says? Screw society. Why not just be yourself and not care
what others think?
When it comes to gayness, humans just need to simma down now and
not make such a big deal over it. I mean if you're a guy and you
love penises, good for you but so what? Honestly, who cares?
Different strokes for different folks.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #66 |
People. Kill. Gay. People. For. Being. Gay.
How many times do we have to say that? People kill people for being
gay. People rape people for being gay. People beat people for being
gay. People fire people for being gay. People kick people out of
their homes for being gay. People arrest people for being gay.
People execute people for being gay. How can you possibly ignore
that? How can you possibly say that isn't a big deal? How can you
possibly dismiss that as hurt feelings?
We're going around in circles here. You're incapable of grasping
how dangerous it still is to be gay, even in the United States. I'd
like to believe you'll understand that at some point, but you've
made it more than clear that you never will.
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From: cj
, 121 months, post #67 |
Guest #66, watch your wording. Your last sentence is treading close to
"personal attack" territory. I'm leaving the post up, as the rest
of your post makes a valid and topical point related to this
thread.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #68 |
Not trolling or joking but I don't kill gay people. To be honest,
never killed a human of any sort in my life. People that kill gay
people for being gay or just kill any human for any reason
excluding self defense are evil and should be punished. That's why
we have laws and consequences with those laws.
I just don't think the negativity helps the situation in my
opinion. People are way too negative when it comes to prejudice,
bigotry, and discrimination.
Some people usually the extremists act like gay people are stoned
to death in public every day. That is just not the case. Gayness
and the gay movement are on a hot streak. Being gay is very trendy
and probably at an all time acceptance and high right now. Just
look back on the last ten years and see how many states have either
legalized civil unions or marriage for gay couples.
Even silly Obama got the military to do away with Don't Ask, Don't
Tell.
Why not celebrate and be proud of the good rather than trying to be
a victim that wants to be a Debbie downer?
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From: cj
, 121 months, post #69 |
Okay, I should have clarified... " I'd like to believe you'll understand that at some point, but
you've made it more than clear that you never will."
... was close
to a personal attack.
Rest of the post (#66) was clear. At least, to me it was.
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From: guest (contortionist)
, 121 months, post #70 |
Some people usually the extremists act like gay people are stoned
to death in public every day. That is just not the case. Gayness
and the gay movement are on a hot streak. Being gay is very trendy
and probably at an all time acceptance and high right now. Just
look back on the last ten years and see how many states have either
legalized civil unions or marriage for gay couples.
Even silly Obama got the military to do away with Don't Ask, Don't
Tell.
Yes. Because what you see on television is all that happens in the
world and what you see happening on TV right now
is all that can happen or ever will ever happen.
Just like how now that President Obama is president, racism is
over.
And gay, trans, and queer people do
get killed or beaten or disowned or fired or denied access to
their children or evicted from their homes ... every day.
And seriously, why do you care. When has the activism of LGBTQ
activists cost you anything? When did anyone insist that you fight
"24/7" on the behalf of the gay agenda? When have you been required
o "bend over backwards"? When has gay activism limited your
opportunities, or put you or your loved ones in danger, or done
anything more than offend your sense of entitlement?
Why not celebrate and be proud of the good rather than trying to be
a victim that wants to be a Debbie downer?
Yeah, why don't LGBTQ folks give each other medals and throw
parades....oh, wait, did't you just say that they shouldn't do
that?
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From: guest (Also Interested)
, 121 months, post #71 |
You say being gay is trendy as if it's some sort of fad the kids
are doing to be cool. You then say that people should be proud
instead of negative when you just said you're tired of people
coming out and celebrating it.
It really just sounds like you're bored of hearing about gay people
and would like people to talk about something else. You're not
against them but just bored of the topic. Fine. In a way, it really
speaks of how far we've come that you can say that. But you aren't
the majority, or rather, you don't make the rules and you aren't
the one denying people or fighting against people for their
gayness.
In a perfect world, we wouldn't need people to come out publicly, a
"It Gets Better" campaign or a "If you can play, you can play"
campaign, or the HRC or GLAAD, or anything like that. But we aren't
in a perfect world, and until we get to the point that we don't
need to be proud or anything or until people aren't fired, beaten,
disowned, etc. for being gay, it will be celebratory and we will
continue to be proud and fight for equality.
If that annoys or bothers you, sorry. But we're not sorry. I would
gladly trade places with you for a month so you can experience what
it's like, but as far as I'm aware, that's just fantasy.
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From: guest (The dude)
, 121 months, post #72 |
About 60 gay people are murdered each year in Peru alone, so one a
day in the world is probably a low estimate, stoned to death seems
a bit dramatic, like stones are the only way to kill gay people...
Gay people are not like vampires or werewolves.
Is gay cool now days, wow, are you Russian? I'd say being gay is
only cool in a very few places.
Maybe the issue is that we don't like to talk about SEX, we hide
kids from SEX, we don't have SEX on the TV or computer games, we
are ok with violence and murder, but SEX just seems to get everyone
worried, like some sort of SEX orgy would destroy the fabric of the
universe. You can get your gun out in public, but take out your SEX
organs and its the crime of the century. Maybe just maybe its not
being gay that offends people its the fact that they are talking
about their SEXual preferences and celebrating the fact they have a
SEXual preference at all. Maybe it should just be cool to have any
sort of SEXual identity, and not some dirty word. Maybe straight
people should be more vocal about being straight and when they
realised they were straight and how wonderful it is to be in love
with someone of the opposite SEX? Or maybe we should just have SEX
day, when everyone can come together and celebrate that they love
each other.
So maybe in an idea world we would throw parades for loving each
other rather then being part of a team. Maybe Dr Who is right and
in the future we will all be Bi Sexual and not care if we are hit
in by men or women or transgendered or intersex or androgynous
people, till then a long steady breakdown of barriers is a good
thing.
Now get out their and talk about SEX, be it between men and men,
men and women, women and women, or men and women and women and men.
It's all good in the end.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #73 |
When you ask a person "do you care", that is a unique question but
also a difficult one to answer.
I don't get bent out of shape when gay people get married or have
sex or act out to be cute or to get attention. At the same time, I
can tell you that I'm not passionate about gayness and the gay
movement. It's nothing against gay people. I just don't think it's
interesting but if you are gay and want to be a crusader for
gayness, I'm not going to stone you to death or stop you.
And to the hater that bashed me about thinking I don't like being a
part of the majority, nice try but I've never really been a part of
the majority. I give you credit for your attempt to generalize me.
I just laugh and smirk when people demand that I bend over
backwards for them because they are different or because society
shuns them. I don't run society so why blame that crap on me?
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From: guest (contortionist)
, 121 months, post #74 |
I just laugh and smirk when people demand that I bend over
backwards for them because they are different or because society
shuns them. I don't run society so why blame that crap on me?{/i]
When has the activism of LGBTQ activists cost you anything? When
did anyone insist that you fight "24/7" on behalf of the gay
agenda? When have you been required o "bend over backwards"? When
has gay activism limited your opportunities, or put you or your
loved ones in danger, or done anything more than offend your sense
of entitlement?
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #75 |
Nothing really I can do or say. You have prejudged me and already
made your mind up. That's extremism for you but whatever. I
disagree with you on something and you resort to character
assassination.
Character assassinations happen way too often in American society.
If a person does not hold the favorable opinion or the opinion of
the majority, then that person must be destroyed.
If a person doesn't support gay marriage, they hate gay people.
If a person doesn't support abortion, they hate women.
If a person doesn't support affirmative action, they hate
minorities.
If a person doesn't support LGBT, they hate LGBT.
If a person doesn't support illegal immigration, they're racist.
Judging, judging, judging, judging, judging. Not nice at all.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #76 |
Haha I just finished reading this, you know what it reminds me
of.... Tory back be chefs.
Happy Labour day, by the way.
So anyway the working class thought hard for labour rights, 8 hour
work days, 8 hours of rest and 8 of play, so working only 1/3 of
the working week... As well as others...
But the back bench conservatives are jealous and wanted a Thatcher
day in August to celebrate... Being rich? Being in charge? What?
So no matter how hard people celebrate the rights they win and how
hard they had to fight for those rights, some privalledged people
will be jealous that they are ignored for not having to win the
rights they have.
If your saying Gay people should shut up and put up, I ask if you
think the lower classes should do the same? Are some of you just
white middle aged conservative (republican) straight men, who are
jealous because people fought to escape from under the thumb of
white middle aged conservative rich and middle class (yeomanry)
conservative straight men?
I say we should celebrate every victory over oppression, be it May
Day, women's day, ethnic minority days, LGBT days, D-Day, Whatever,
it's always worth celebrating or people will forget and the rights
will be lost.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #77 |
Not a Republican or conservative or middle aged too. I consider
myself a mostly apathetic independent.
There is a difference between celebrating and bragging. Just
sayin'.
At the end of the day, I just find the bragging annoying. Does it
honestly ruin my day or has it ruined my life? No to both. I have
bigger things to worry about in my life than two gay men having gay
sex in their house or two gay women fighting to play house and be
accepted as normal.
Am I allowed to have an opinion on American soil? Yes
I am just stating an opinion. Just because it's not a favorable
opinion or the opinion of the majority, does not mean I should be
character assassinated. At the same time, this is America and
judging and generalizing are the norm especially if you don't have
the trendy or favorable opinion on the issue.
Closing statements to the court: I just find the gayness being
shoved down people's throat to be annoying sometimes. That's all.
Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not being physically hurt or
burdened by it. It's just something that annoys me. I deal with a
lot of things that annoy me just fine but I am a human and on
American soil so I'm entitled to have an opinion that isn't cute or
trendy.
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From: cj
, 121 months, post #78 |
I'm starting to lose track of who is whom with all these posts that
have no differentiation to them... they all show as "guest".
I haven't seen any character assassinations.
This isn't America... this is the INTERNET. That said, this board's
home and quite a few guests and users are American IIRC.
"Am I allowed to have an opinion..."
Yes, you most certainly are. However, for those who claim that the
LGBT "agenda" is being forced upon them, shoved down their throats,
or that they have to bend over backwards because of it/them... I've
still not seen any of you post ONE SINGLE SHRED of evidence to
support that claim - so please, stop trying to use it as some sort
of "justification" for your opinion.
An opinion doesn't really need a be qualified or have an excuse...
unless perhaps, you are trying to sway the opinion of others... but
if you are, examples, verifiable facts, or other proof is usually
necessary. Without it, you start to look like a troll or an idiot,
and you start to grate on the nerves of others by repeating
unsubstantiated drivel.
In other words. If it's your opinion - great... let's keep it at
that. If you're going to make claims, back them up with examples or
verifiable facts.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #79 |
I'm on the internet in Murica so it's America. Thank you.
If I make claims, I'm too lazy to give examples or show facts
sorry. Not personal. Just too lazy. I mean it's the internet. The
internet is the home to laziness 24/7.
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From: cj
, 121 months, post #80 |
"If I make claims, I'm too lazy to give examples or show facts
sorry. Not personal. Just too lazy."
Thanks for your honesty.
At least we now know we can ignore your claims, if you are too lazy
to present facts to support them. :-)
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