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From: guest
, 121 months, post #21 |
I'm sorry but I just can't call a gay person or homosexual "brave"
or heroic. I mean let's analyze for a minute. If a person pretends
to be gay then eventually admits that they are gay, that would be
lying in my opinion. I mean I guess it's good to be honest but it
doesn't cover up the fact that the person was lying. Then again,
who cares if you are a guy and you like men and their bulges?
Seriously, who cares? Being gay does not mean you get special
treatment or acknowledgement. If you want to be treated like
everyone else then don't have pity parties or act like you are a
special because your sexual preference is not with the majority.
I also get really annoyed with the "born this way" crap. That is a
huge cop out in my opinion. If you are gay, you should be gay and
embrace your gayness. You shouldn't use the excuse or defense of
"well I was born this way so I have to be gay no matter what".
I don't really know if sexuality is purely a choice or biological
or if it's a mixture of both. What I do know is that when it comes
to sexuality, people swing a certain way because they like it and
it makes them feel good.
So I can agree that gay people shouldn't be harassed, beaten,
killed, or bullied because of their gayness but at the same time,
people shouldn't be bending over backwards for them. And no, I'm
not saying every gay person is like that. Most gay people that I've
known are not uppity or overly sensitive or act like a victim. If
your behavior is normal to you, then you shouldn't get all
defensive about it and make excuses. Embrace it, deal with it, live
with it, and move on.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #22 |
Why are you so bitter #21? I can tell you straight most of what you
said is a load of rubbish.
Being gay at school means you will be bullied, being gay to your
parents means you may be bullied, being gay in your community may
mean you will be beaten and chucked out. Living in fear of your own
sexuality is terrible.
Now I agree, I'm sure so would most LGBT community, that a child
that comes out as gay, as soon as they realise that that is what
being attracted to members of the same sex is called, is much
braver then someone that lives in the closet for years. But even
that's subjective.
Or that a gay person that comes out in a state or a country where
is is illegal to be gay, or where it is legal to persecute gay
people, is braver then a gay person living in fear in a country or
state where being gay is ok and they can even get married.
Your comments assume that being gay is ok everywhere, that gay
people already have equal rights, this isn't true. You make it
sound like gay people want more rights then everyone else, this
isn't true.
Now that's not the worst of it, women are still treated by men the
way you say. Why should women have festivals and a day to celebrate
being a woman and have women's charities and act like they want
more rights then men? BECAUSE they are not equal yet.
I hear people like yourself say the same about black people in
white countries, Why do they need black history month, why do they
have festivals and parties and days to celebrate being black?
BECAUSE black people haven't got equal rights yet.
Just because White people are the minority on this planet and there
are thought to be more women then men world wide, does not mean
societies reflect the fact.
Now in an idea world I still wouldn't agree with you. Because I go
to comic conventions, I go to sci fi conventions, if there was a
metamorphose convention I'd go to that, I go to science and
technology conventions, I go to the local f�tes, I go to motorcycle
rallies, I go to church get togethers (where we discuss if Jesus
was gay), I go to Caribbean pride even though I'm not from there (I
like the music and the food).
So if I say I go to gay pride for three days of the year to
celebrate that, then that's up to me and those that attend. Their
are parties for all sorts and more the better, everyone is welcome
to any of the stuff I listed above.
Also how dare you say being gay is a choice, I take it that your
Bisexual then? And forgive your ignorance on the matter as you
obviously can pick and choose who your attracted to. But I can
honestly say some of us have only ever been attracted to one sex,
even as a teenager. Heck this may blow your mind, but some people
are not even attracted to anyone.
Now that doesn't mean they can not control themselves, anyone can
choose not to go out and have sex, were not a race of rapists. But
choosing who we are attracted to is not our choose. Unless your
attracted to anything with legs, in which case good for you, but
don't assume that's the case for everyone.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #23 |
Never said being gay was a choice. Never said that I was bisexual.
Never said gay people want more rights.
I said that being gay does not make your special nor should it
allow you to have special treatment because you have a sexual
preference that some people may disagree with.
I also stated that I don't care if people are gay or have gay sex
or want to get pieces of paper and say they are married so they can
get tax breaks and pieces of the pie from the government.
I was trying to say that if being gay is ever going to be deemed
normal by society, we as in planet Earth have to stop pitying
homosexuals and treating like they are victims. We also have to
stop with the whole "okay you're gay, let's throw you a party,
parade, or celebration". If being gay is normal, then there should
be no party, parade, or celebration. It should be "okay" and that
be the end of it.
The one downfall of humankind especially in America is that we have
a terrible tendency to focus on groups instead of individuality. We
prop up groups and the characteristics of said groups while
ignoring individuality. A person shouldn't be celebrated because of
their skin color, religion, or sexual preference. That would be
like going up to a person that had blue eyes and giving them a
present simply because that person has blue eyes. That trend has to
stop. We need to start rewarding people for actually doing
something that is amazing rather than just hand out gold stars
because someone belongs to a certain group.
And for the record, I have never once thought that a gay man was
going to hit on me, kiss me, or rape me. I've never had a man do
any of that. But I'm always up to defend myself against false
assumptions and generalizations.
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From: guest (8_12_17)
, 121 months, post #24 |
I was trying to say that if being gay is ever going to be deemed
normal by society, we as in planet Earth have to stop pitying
homosexuals and treating like they are victims
Yeah, see.. LGBT folks often are
victims of:
- hate crimes
- discrimination
- police harassment
- bullying
- dispossession
We celebrate LGBT folks who come out, speak out, or otherwise make
their presence known because they often do so at personal cost and
their actions benefit others in the community.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #25 |
I just don't see how admitting that you were living a lie is
bravery or something to be celebrated. I can understand giving
someone credit for being honest but that's about it. You were
embarrassed about your own gayness because of stupid society. That
doesn't look well for the gay community and movement. And another
thing, why does there have to be a gay community and movement? Why
can't there just be a human community?
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From: guest (Bud)
, 121 months, post #26 |
I somewhat agree. We need to put more emphasis on individuality
than people belonging to a certain group.
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From: guest (8_12_17_24)
, 121 months, post #27 |
... embarrassed about your own gayness because of stupid society.
That doesn't look well for the gay community and movement.
"embarrassed"! Seriously?
HERE
HERE
HERE
There are places in the world were it is illegal to be gay. There
are places in the world where it is illegal to say that is all
right to be gay.
In the United States there are still LOTS of places where you can
legally be denied housing or access to public services if you are
Gay or Trans.
Even in places where this kind of discrimination is illegal, people
get away with doing terrible things to gay and trans folk
Tyra Hunter
Shaun Smith
Coming out, living out, can be lethal.
Even if it doesn't get you killed, it can get you kicked out your
home, separated from your family, fired from your job (and not
hired for work for which you are qualified).
LGBTQ organizations exist because this kind of discrimination,
oppression, and violence exists.
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From: cj
, 121 months, post #28 |
"...why does there have to be a gay community and movement? Why
can't there just be a human community?"
Why are you asking us? You need to be asking your fellow humans...
the narrow-minded ones who attack those who are different than
themselves. Until ALL humans learn to respect and tolerate others,
there will be a need to organize, protect, educate, and legislate
when and where needed.
I can't believe that you've never realized this, being a member of
this (to others) "odd" community... I'll give you the benefit of
the doubt, that you're not just trolling for drama. Please do some
research - start with the links above.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #29 |
I believe I've had a conversation with the person who keeps
complaining about queer people being treated like heroes; I've
tried to explain why it takes courage to come out in a culture that
discriminates against queer people, and why it's appropriate to
celebrate queer identities as long as there are people who want to
harm other people for being queer, and that treating and even that
the only person who is calling queer people heroic is this person.
I and several other people went round and round in circles trying
to get through to this person; the conversation went on for several
pages. After all of that, this person just kept griping about how
it was stupid to call queer people heroes, and I just ended up
banging my head against my desk in frustration. I don't want to go
through all that again.
Nevertheless, I'm going to make one last-ditch effort to reach this
person. Gay-people-aren't-heroes dude, you say you're attracted to
Asian women. Since you specify that the women you're attracted to
are Asian, I'm going to assume that you're not Asian yourself.
Nowadays, it's okay for you to admit publicly that you're attracted
to Asian women. No one's going to beat you or murder you for being
attracted to Asian women. You might get a few dirty looks in the
grocery store if you're out with an Asian woman who you're dating,
but even that is becoming rare.
100 years ago, that wouldn't have been the case. You would have
been drummed out of society for dating an Asian woman. You would
have been the target of violence. Your house might have been
vandalized. You might have been beaten. You might have been
lynched. You might have been fired from your job, kicked out of
your house, disowned by your family. There would have been
anti-miscegenation laws to keep you from legally marrying an Asian
woman. Preachers in church might have written sermons about how it
was a sin for a non-Asian person to love an Asian woman. Respected
scientists would have lined up to tell you how the Mongoloid race
was biologically inferior to the Caucasoid race, and to warn you
that, if you loved an Asian woman, you would be setting back the
evolution of the white race. There would have been serious
discussions about whether the child of such a union could even be
considered human, and whether it would be better to have your Asian
wife forcibly sterilized so as not to put the nation in danger.
I'm not exaggerating here; all this garbage really happened a
century ago. In such a setting, it would have taken a lot of
courage to publicly court an Asian woman. You wouldn't have been a
hero; you wouldn't have been curing cancer or saving drowning
puppies. But you would have been brave.
Today, you can have a relationship with an Asian woman without fear
of serious reprisal. But it wasn't people keeping their interracial
relationships hush-hush that led to this change. It took the
Holocaust, the internment of Japanese-Americans, decades of postwar
soul searching, the Civil Rights movement, a few Supreme Court
cases, the movie Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, scores of scientific
studies proving that scientific racism is BS, years of interracial
relationships being depicted as normal and wholesome on television
and in movies and advertising, and a whole bunch of people
celebrating their interracial relationships openly and publicly for
us to get to a point where you can love the kind of person you want
to love.
So be thankful that you're living now instead of then, and try to
have some understanding for people whose sexual and/or romantic
interests still aren't as socially acceptable as yours.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #30 |
First off, just because I said I think Asian women are attractive,
does not mean I'm only attracted to that race or ethnicity of
women. I would say I probably find white women and Asian women
pretty closely attractive. Other races are below. Does that make me
a racist? I don't know. It's not like I think all black women are
hideous or not attractive. I just find myself more drawn to white
women and Asian women.
Some people especially baby boomers would have an issue with a
white guy dating an Asian woman. People aren't as bad as they were
back in the day when it comes racism but it still exists.
I just don't think a gay person should be celebrated or glorified
for admitting to everyone who they are. I have scoliosis but that
doesn't mean I go around telling everyone that I have it and demand
that people take pity on me.
I don't care if people are gay, straight, bisexual, or whatever. I
just get annoyed when people demand that I fight 24/7 for their
sexuality because they are insecure of what others may think about
what they do in the bedroom.
People need to stop giving a crap and be who they are and we have
to stop giving out gold stars for that crap too. So what, you're
gay. Glad that you admitted it. Now let's move on. You go be gay
and get married and let's just accept it and move on. Nothing more
and nothing less.
Some people hate hearing this but you don't get special treatment
or recognition because you are a minority or in the minority.
Am I saying that you should be abused, harassed, beaten, killed,
raped, arrested, discriminated against, etc... because you are gay,
a woman, a minority, disabled, your religion, etc...?
No I am not. You shouldn't be harassed or done any harm because of
stuff that makes you who you are. You should be treated like a
person.
Thank you.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #31 |
Queer people don't want special privileges. They want the same
rights and respect straight and cis people get. They want to be
able to marry the person they love. They want to be able to be open
about their relationships and identities without fear of harm or
censure. Nondiscrimination and hate crime laws aren't a special
privilege that protects only queer people; they protect straight
people, too. If a straight person were ever to be fired for being
straight, nondiscrimination laws would protect that person. The
only reason nondiscrimination laws and hate crime laws look like
"special privileges" is because straight people don't typically
face harassment for being straight.
And that's the same reason there isn't an "S" in LGBT. LGBT
organizations are meant to protect the rights and promote the
welfare of people who face difficulties because of their sexuality
or gender identity. If society ever starts discriminating against
straight people, there would be a case for including straight
people under the LGBT umbrella. Until then, straight people are
more than welcome as allies. That's what the A in LGBTIA, LGBTIAQQ,
QUILTBAG, or any of the other extended acronyms stand for (when it
doesn't stand for asexual, which it also sometimes does).
The reason there are gay pride parades and no straight pride
parades is because all of society is one big straight pride parade.
Straight people publicly celebrate their relationships and
identities and sexualities 364 days a year. Let queer people have a
day to celebrate theirs.
We need to continue to celebrate queer sexualities and identities
as long as there are people around the world who are being beaten,
murdered, raped, bullied, fired, not hired, kicked out of their
homes, cast out of their families, banned from their churches, told
they're sinners, protested, boycotted, blacklisted, stoned,
arrested, executed, and driven to suicide for being LGBT. We
celebrate LGBT people to tell LGBT people and the rest of the world
that it's okay to be LGBT.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #32 |
I think the attitude against straight people is jealousy to be
honest. Some gay people are jealous that straight people are the
majority. I also think it's bigoted for a gay person to say that a
straight person or straight people can't have straight pride
parades or days because straight people are the majority. That
attitude is no different than the attitude that Bible thumpers have
toward gay people. A bigot is a bigot. And anyone can be a bigot
including humans of the LGBT. Thank you.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #33 |
I would have no problem with straight people having a straight
pride parade, to be honest (and I'm the one who explained why we
don't have straight pride parades a couple of posts ago). The thing
is, the people who complain that we have gay pride parades but not
straight pride parades tend not to be people who sincerely want to
have straight pride parades; rather, they tend to be homophobic
people who resent gay pride parades and want to shut them down.
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #34 |
I personally don't want a straight pride parade. However, if gay
people are about equality, tolerance, and compassion then they
would have to support straight pride parade. If they don't, then
they're hypocrites. You could also say that when gay people say
they demand that they can get married but oppose polygamy. Not very
tolerant and open minded if you ask me. And again, not every gay
person is like that. Just the extremists which usually get the most
attention which is sad since they represent a small number.
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From: guest (8_12_17_24_27)
, 121 months, post #35 |
However, if gay people are about equality, tolerance, and
compassion then they would have to support straight pride parade.
If they don't, then they're hypocrites.
Who is against a "straight pride" parade? Who is trying to organize
this parade, and who is opposing it?
I just don't think a gay person should be celebrated or glorified
for admitting to everyone who they are. I have scoliosis but that
doesn't mean I go around telling everyone that I have it and demand
that people take pity on me.
Last time on this one. LGBTQ people get KILLED for being LGBTQ
. Coming out is dangerous. No one is being celebrated for having
"lived a lie". No one is being celebrated for the mere fact of
their sexual preference or gender identity. Those who come out are sometimes
celebrated in some places
for risking safety, comfort and/or livelihood to increase the
chances for everyone
to live openly and in safety. It is becuase it is DANGEROUS to be
out that many stay in the closet, and it is the act of coming out in the face of intolerance
that is celebrated.
First off, just because I said I think Asian women are attractive,
does not mean I'm only attracted to that race or ethnicity of
women. I would say I probably find white women and Asian women
pretty closely attractive. Other races are below. Does that make me
a racist?
WOW! Did you ever miss the point of that one. Here is another link
for you not to follow anti-micegenation laws
You may still risk a beat-down for being seen dating outside you
race -- but it was the work of activists in civil-rights
organizations very like the LGBTQ organizations against which you
have some ill-defined complaint, that removed the laws that made it
illegal
to be in a mixed-race relationship (in the US -- it many places it
is still illegal and punishable).
GUEST #29 After all of that, this person just kept griping about how it was
stupid to call queer people heroes, and I just ended up banging my
head against my desk in frustration. I don't want to go through all
that again.
Indeed. I am out of troll-food.
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From: guest (unknownorange)
, 121 months, post #36 |
the people in this thread make me ashamed to be straight
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #37 |
I'm on American soil and I'm entitled to my opinion. You are also
entitled to disagree with that opinion. My intent is not to offend
anyone.
I don't like the guilt trips that minorities, women, and gay people
try to play against white straight males. It's so annoying and
rude. I didn't own slaves. I never raped a woman or a man. I never
beat a gay guy to death because he was gay. Why is it my fault that
people are mean and stupid?
It's not my fault that the world is an evil place.
Despite what haters on here may think, I do feel sorry for gay
people on Earth especially in America. They deal with a lot of crap
from a lot of people mostly of which they don't deserve. They
shouldn't be beaten to death or arrested or treated badly or done
harm because they are gay. Can you read what I just posted?
Okay, with that being said, I do feel sorry for the plight of gay
people but at the same time, I don't think I should have to bend
over backwards for their cause or movement. I don't really do
movements or causes so in a way I'm a reluctant observer. If gay
people want me to respect them then they need to stop with the
blame game and pity party and just try to get along. The same can
be said for their haters and bullies. People just need to get
along. Yeah, you're a guy and penises turn you on. So what? Who
cares? You think you should be given a medal for that? Fudge no.
It's about equality right. So you will not get a medal or special
recognition because you're gay. Straight people don't so if we are
talking about equality then gay people get the same as straight
people do. Nothing. Yes, you should be allowed to get married, play
house, and do whatever helps you with your own personal
insecurities but nothing more and nothing less. If you want to be
on the same playing field as straight people, start acting like it.
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From: guest (contortionist)
, 121 months, post #38 |
I don't think I should have to bend over backwards for their cause
or movement.
Give an example of the cost to you exacted by LGBTQ folks, please.
How have you been injured or inconvenienced?
Yeah, you're a guy and penises turn you on. So what? Who cares? You
think you should be given a medal for that?
Are they giving out medals for that? Who is giving out medals for
that? Because, you know, I kind of thought they did the opposite of that
.
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From: guest (contortionist)
, 121 months, post #39 | |
Message deleted by cj. duplicate post |
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From: guest
, 121 months, post #40 |
The media and society
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