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From: guest (thesaint)
, 124 months, post #141 |
How about that picture? Huh? Huh? That was a tricky one to find. :
)
Also, Sarah Scott started filming her scenes today. She plays
Cynthia, Doc's girlfriend, and she posted this interesting tidbit
that leads credence to the love-triangle plot: Getting into
character for my next film role on "SAM." Lady knows what she wants
and ain't afraid to fight a little for it.
I don't think I've ever read/seen a TG story/film with a love
triangle where the guy-now-a-girl is competing with her best
friends girlfriend for his affections. I can't wait.
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From: guest (A Transfeminist)
, 124 months, post #142 |
I should preface this by saying that I'm very much a feminist. I
know, that's an easy thing to assert and not easy to prove on a
forum like this, but please, take my word for that. I believe that
men and women are equally capable mentally and should be treated
equally socially. There are minor mental differences between men
and women, but one sex is not better than the other; any advantage
one sex has is cancelled out by an advantage the other sex has, and
the differences between the sexes are dwarfed by the differences
between individuals, so that it's absolutely absurd to discriminate
against women on the assumption that women are mentally inferior
to, or even mentally different from, men. Pass up women for men
when you're hiring, say, scientists, and you're likely to pass up
many extremely capable female scientists and hire many mediocre
male scientists.
I should also say that I'm a transwoman, which will likely color my
assertions here.
While men and women are equally capable mentally, male and female
bodies are quite different. Again, male and female bodies fall
along overlapping spectrums, and there are, for example, many
biological women who are taller, faster, and stronger than I have
ever been. But testosterone and estrogen shape our bodies such that
male bodies, on average, are significantly taller, heavier, and
stronger than female bodies.
Muscles need testosterone to get larger and stronger, and males
have far more testosterone in their bodies, on average, than
females, so men are capable of growing much larger and stronger
muscles than women, which makes the average male of a given height
stronger and heavier than the average female of a same height.
Estrogen, meanwhile, signals bones to stop growing, and female
bodies, on average, have far more estrogen than male bodies, which
means that female bodies, on average, stop growing taller a few
years earlier than male bodies. That leaves the average adult male
body about six inches taller than the average adult female body. It
also means that male bodies, on average, have longer legs, and thus
longer strides, than female bodies, which means that the average
male body can cover ground faster than the average female body.
Of course, everyone uses his or her or hir body differently, and
some people make much better use of their bodies than others. And
again, there are plenty of women who are very tall and very strong.
So there are any number of astonishingly capable female athletes. I
don't see any reason that such women, if they choose, should not be
allowed to play sports. And there have been a number of teenage
girls who have played on their high school sports teams, and plenty
of women play sports casually with their friends or on
non-professional teams.
But professional sports are a big business, and there's money at
stake, and the number of spots for athletes at the professional
level is tiny compared to the number of spots for athletes at the
high school and even college level, and so the athletes who play
professionally are the absolute best at their particular game. That
means that the males on, say, an NFL team are the largest,
strongest, fastest football players in the United States. They're
men whose bodies are signficantly outside the norm for male bodies,
men whose bodies lie at the far end of the bell curve. And so,
because of the way that testosterone makes men stronger and heavier
than women and because of the way estrogen makes women shorter than
men, professional male athletes have bodies that no woman, no
matter how tall or strong she is, can achieve. And that means that
women, no matter how extraordinary their bodies are, now matter how
skilled they are, will never be able to compete with men at the
professional level, because the bodies of professional male
athletes are at the absolute peak of height, strength, and weight.
A woman may be able to throw better, catch better, maneuver better,
think better than than any male athlete in the world, and she may
be taller and stronger than the vast majority of women in the
world, but she'll never be hired onto an NFL team because, for all
of her ability, for all of her height and strength, she'll never be
able to compete against men who can outrun her because of their
sheer height and who can tackle her because of their sheer strength
and weight. And the same goes for every other professional sport.
Think about the controversy over letting transwomen compete against
biological women in the Olympics. Advocates of trans athletes have
pointed out, rightly, that, in transitioning, in replacing
testosterone with estrogen, transwomen lose a great deal of muscle
mass and bone density, and so, in general, they have weaker muscles
and thinner bones than the average biological woman. So the only
advantage a transwoman has as an athlete over a biological woman is
her height; and in fact, in some sports, this extra height is a
disadvantage. So there's no good reason to keep transwomen from
competing in sports where height is not a factor. Nevertheless,
people are reluctant to let transwomen compete in the Olympics,
because people who don't fully understand the ways transitioning
reshapes a transwoman's body assume that a transwoman will be
stronger than a biological woman's body, because men, on average,
are stronger than women.
Some of the most vocal opponents of allowing transwomen to compete
against biological women in the Olympics are feminist women; if it
were sexist to keep male sports teams separate from female sports
teams, these feminists probably wouldn't be bothered by the
prospect of allowing transwomen to compete against biological
women. The reasons male and female teams are kept separate is so
that male athletes, because of their generally superior size, don't
have an unfair advantage against female athletes. If an
extraordinary female athlete can compete on equal footing with male
athletes, then I don't see any good reason that she should not be
allowed onto a male sports team if that's what she wants. But
that's unlikely to happen at the professional level, because
professional athletes are selected, in large part, because of their
superior size.
To bring this all back around to the movie we're supposed to be
discussing here, from what I've seen, Sam is a fairly average man,
physically speaking, and Samantha is a fairly average women.
Samantha is, after all, supposed to be the female genetic
equivalent of Sam. So yes, of course Samantha is shorter, lighter,
and weaker as a woman than (s)he was as a man, and his/her shorter
stride means that (s)he won't be able to run as fast, so (s)he
won't be as good at football, which relies a great deal on
strength, weight, and speed, as (s)he was as a man. Add to that the
fact that (s)he is attempting to pay football with an unfamiliar
body, one (s)he doesn't yet know how to operate in the world and
apply to something like footbal, and yes, (s)he's going to have
problems playing football with his/her old friends.
And just a quick note about emotions... yes, emotions can cause all
sorts of problems and lead to all sorts of atrocities. But so can
logic. The Holocaust was caused, in part, by the unreasonable
emotional hatred of some German citizens toward Jews and other
minority groups, but it was also caused, in part, by the
conclusion, believed by the Nazis to be logical, and backed by the
best science of that time, that the only way that "Aryans" could
survive and thrive as a race was to eliminate anyone who was deemed
to be a danger to racial purity. Emotion and logic, taken to their
extremes, are equally dangerous, and the only way we can survive as
a species is to keep emotion and reason in balance.
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From: guest (PeachPit)
, 124 months, post #143 |
Women don't fight Men in MMA because they have divisions.
265 pound guys don't fight 155 pound guys. Same thing with the
women's divisions. It has nothing to do with fear of guys grabbing
their "boobs and butts".
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From: guest (Guestimation)
, 124 months, post #144 |
Yes, these little info tidbits keep making SAM sound better and
better. The frequent updates and detective work are very much
appreciated, TheSaint. :)
I really like that they cast Knepp, who is not only pretty, but is
also on the petite side. One of my many pet peeves with SWITCH was
that Ellen Barkin, while certainly not ugly, still came across as a
little tough-looking and slightly mannish (beyond her behavior) to
me, which was probably an intentional casting choice. Barkin was/is
5' 7 in height, which isn't all that tall, but not exactly
sleight/petite, either. Anyway, I didn't get the feel of much
physical reduction in SWITCH, although it's been several years
since I last watched it.
So, Brock Harris, at 5'11 (I looked it up, heh-heh), will lose
roughly 8" in height in his transformation into the very feminine,
5' 3 Natalie Knepp. Since Sam will eventually fall for his best
friend, and deal with all of his peers at his workplace as both Sam
and Samantha, there should be a nice amount of pre-transformation
set-up with male Sam (unlike SWITCH), so we'll get a lot of
contrast when Samantha is interacting with the same people.
Several of the details uncovered make it sound as though
Sam/Samantha will be totally open about what's happened to him;
that he's the same Sam, changed into a woman, rather than trying to
fool the people in his life that he's Sam's "sister"/"cousin"
filling in because the Sam they know had to "go on a sudden trip on
important personal business" somewhere... if they avoid this
cliche, that alone would make this a refreshing change from the
norm.
The pictures with male Sam on a date, where TheSaint thinks it
looks like he might be shrinking, look inconclusive to me. It's
probably just a normal, slightly baggy-looking suit, combined with
the position his body's in, in the shot. It'd be great if the
change started slowly like that, in public with some mild
shrinkage, before he fatefully goes to bed, but I have a feeling
it's going to be a total "He wakes up female" situation. This is
mainly because it's a cheap and easy (especially for an indie
production) way to convey the idea, though I'm holding out hope
they'll show some changing while he sleeps, along the lines of
Lalola.
I'd love to see a "magical TG" live-action movie some day where the
awake/alert male protagonist undergoes a semi-rapid transformation
(a minute or two in duration) from tall, masculine male to petite,
feminine female, in front of other people, along the lines of the
famous scene in DEATHSTALKER, except with some good morphing (vocal
as well as physical) in addition to the editing tricks. DR. JEKYLL
& MS. HYDE had a scene like that, but it was undercut by the fact
that he was seated during the change, and ran from the restaurant
before it was complete... and the effects work was a little clumsy,
as well. Better than nothing, though. A really well-done, extended
mutual-gender-transformation scene, involving a man and a woman
becoming attractive opposites, done in the style of VICE VERSA
(though with updated effects), would be pure gold.
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From: guest (thesaint)
, 124 months, post #145 |
Thanks, Guestimation. I agree about the casting of Knepp being
refreshingly petite and brunette. The thing that I like about SAM
is that they are establishing who Sam is at work, his interactions
with his co-workers and his friendship with Doc so that we can
really see the social contrast when Sam becomes Samantha.
I've been jumping the gun with certain theories and you're probably
right about the suit just being baggy. From the little I know about
the script the character of Stephanie slams the door on Sam after
he says "Now she has star quality." It looks like April Wilkner had
a small part in the movie as a young model. It stands to reason
that the date with Sam happens before the transformation. It was
just wishful thinking.
The mostly likely scenario is: Sam takes Stephanie out on a date,
he makes her think she has a chance at a modeling contract, he
sleeps with her, the next day Sam explains that she's not 'star
quality', Stephanie realizes she's been used by Sam and storms out.
The very next scene in the script is Margaret running up behind Sam
with a clip board. I'm sure that picture of Sam and Melissa takes
place right after since you can see her holding (presumably) the
same clipboard.
Unfortunately, while I would love to see a TG movie where everybody
just accepts that the guy is a girl SAM uses the trope of trying to
fool people. Samantha goes to work at Sam's job and is introduced
as Sam's cousin from out of town. How Samantha is able to get a job
and convince people Sam is away will be interesting to see. I'm
pretty sure the only person to believe Samantha is Sam is Doc, but
it'll also be fun to see how that plays out. They do the bit about
"ask me something only Sam would know" and while it's cliche the
scene made me laugh quite a bit: "Is there anything that prick
didn't tell you?" // "I AM that prick!"
Samantha then clips her hair and tells Doc to do a DNA test and
compare it to blood he had drawn. There's a character listed as
Johnny DNA so I imagine it's revealed that Samantha is the female
equivalent of Sam. I know it's low budget but I really hope they
gave Brock Harris brown contact lenses because Knepp has such big,
brown eyes and Harris's are blue it'd kind spoil the genetic
plotline.
As for fooling co-workers into thinking Samantha is Sam's cousin
there is a scene with a humorous wordplay. Margaret ask Samantha if
she's heard from Sam and immediately her coworker says, "Sam, can I
talk to you?". I wonder if that'll be a running gag.
I'm not holding out any hope for a transformation, but it'd be nice
if there was some small foreshadowing. I thought maybe Sam was on
another date with Stephanie but his voice starts to crack, he
starts to shrink, etc. etc. Little things that make the date end.
But all we know is that "he gets really drunk, goes to bed and
wakes up a woman."
Good call on Deathstalker, Ms. Hyde and Vice Versa. All good
transformations.
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From: guest
, 124 months, post #146 |
I also dig that Natalie Knepp is petite, and brunette, and more
cute or pretty than sexy, per se.
Regarding the picture and the possibility of a slow transformation,
it actually looks to me like Sam is wearing a coat in that picture
rather than a suit jacket, and a coat would generally be larger and
thicker than a suit jacket. So I don't think it's that he's
shrinking; I think the combination of the coat and his posture
simply make him kind of look that way.
It would be interesting to see a movie in which a transformed
character is open and honest about his/her transformation, but I
think it would have to be handled very carefully, or otherwise it
would strain credibility. It would be extremely difficult to
convince most people that you've transformed into the opposite sex,
since things like that simply don't happen in real life. And more
importantly, if the world at large found out about Sam's
transformation, it would be an unprecedented, world-changing event
that would shake everyone's understanding of... well, everything,
really, because it would mean that magic is real, and if it's
possible for people to magically transform into the opposite sex,
what can't happen? It would make for an interesting movie, but it's
would make the story of Sam much bigger than the sweet little
romantic comedy that it's supposed to be. So it's much more
believable to me that Sam would hide his/her transformation.
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From: guest (rush)
, 124 months, post #147 |
Random thoughts:
I get the feeling that you're going to see more of the Sam
character pre-transformation than the pre-transformation character
in Switch. This is a good thing. In fact I hope that's a sign that
it's distancing itself from Switch.
I really think that picture of Sam at dinner is the night of the
transformation. I think he gets into a fight with his girlfriend or
Doc about women. I would wager that Doc being a gynecologist can't
be an incidental fact and will make for some interesting
conversations with Sam both pre and post transformation.
As to the cause of transformation, I really think he gets drunk
after the fight, curses all women saying their lives are easy (or
something like that), then wakes up like that with no explanation
given. The reason why I think this is if it was a witch or a
magical object that transformed Sam then he/she would eat up a lot
of time trying to figure out how to change back. I think he just
transforms and figures he has to live with it forever.
This isn't how I would prefer the story to go, but I think that's
how it will.
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From: guest (thesaint)
, 124 months, post #148 |
Good points but here are a couple of things we need to consider:
Sam is described as a "total womanizer" who works at a fashion
agency. I kind of doubt he has a girlfriend and I'm not sure if he
would curse women. They say he's been stealing ideas from the girl
who has a crush on him so unless he gets passed over for a
promotion by Lulu (the character I presume to be his boss) your
guess is as good as mine.
Doc as a gynecologist will definitely make for some interesting
post transformation scenes. It makes me suspect there will
definitely be a scene with Doc helping Sam deal with her first
period. That could make for both a funny and touching scene.
There seems to be only one clue as to the cause of the
transformation. In the script, after the big moment where Sam and
Doc kiss in front of everybody, Sam looks at her watch. It feels
like this is a Cinderella moment. Then there's the picture with
Samantha and The Shopkeeper. What's that about? I wouldn't mind
having no explanation about the change but I'm curious about why
you'd cast Stacy Keach for the end of your movie.
I just saw on Sean Kleier's website that he'll start shooting his
scenes tomorrow through February 3rd. Plus, Sarah Scott (Cynthia)
actually starts tomorrow too.
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From: guest
, 124 months, post #149 |
You have turned into a woman and your best male friend is a
gynecologist. That would be awkward.
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From: guest (thesaint)
, 124 months, post #150 |
Yay! The couple Sam and Doc!
http://instagram.com/p/jK_zpIkO6u/
Love the hat. Wish I could read the script in the foreground.
http://instagram.com/p/jLQJW_EO-z/
This is cool. Costume change book. I can read: "Day look", "4"
Pumps, Wide bermuda hat." // Oversized Tshirt // ---> The Most
????? Dress"
Is that suppose to be "Amazing"?
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From: guest (thesaint)
, 124 months, post #151 |
Morgan Fairchild is busy.
"Just finished Hallmark movie On Paper. Shooting Christian Mingle
now. Sam in New York and Hot in Cleveland next week."
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From: guest (Guestimation)
, 124 months, post #152 |
Maybe green eggs and ham is the catalyst for the sex-change--
"Would you, could you, as a girl?"
"I could not, would not, as a girl!
You've put my life into a whirl!
I do not like it, being small!
I do not like it, not at all!
I do not like it, looking 'cute'!
I do not like my curves, to boot!"
--a little later...
"I do not mind it, wearing heels.
I do not mind the way it feels.
I do not mind it, in a dress
I do not mind it, hair's a-mess..."
--a little later...
"I sort of dig my jutting chest!
I sort of dig it, east and west!
I sort of dig it, bounce and jiggle!
I sort of dig it, makes me giggle!"
--a little later...
"I really like it, on a date!
I really like it... is this fate?
I really like it, what a shock!
I really like it, boyfriend 'Doc'!"
--a little later...
"I do so love to be a 'Miss'!
I do so love my buddy's kiss!
I do so love it, being glam!
I do so love it, Sam-I-am!"
(thus ends my little skit) ;-)
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From: guest (thesaint)
, 124 months, post #153 |
: )
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From: guest (rush)
, 124 months, post #154 |
Samantha all dressed up and ready to dance.
http://instagram.com/p/jNYsXckOxG/
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From: guest (thesaint)
, 124 months, post #155 |
Wow. She is absolutely lovely. I can't wait to see this film. I
can't wait to see that kiss.
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From: guest
, 124 months, post #156 |
Ditto, thesaint, she is lovely. Which is - to me - exactly what
they need to be going for in this story - feminine and beautiful,
instead of the more cliche smoking hot sexpot. That classic
feminine and lovely look, in the classic little black dress is
perfect. SAM increasingly looks more and more like the film many of
us have been waiting for. It seems like at half of the weddings I
go to now, the bride and groom claim to have "married their best
friend." It looks like SAM is going to make that come beautifully
to life. Bravo!
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From: guest
, 124 months, post #157 |
Does Sam know that he will be the one that will be getting pregnant
if he has sex? I am just curious to see this because it seems like
the main character gets turned into a female and after that it is
goodbye to his former life and existence. Where is the fight in
him? Where is his will to fight?
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From: guest (thesaint)
, 124 months, post #158 |
You make an interesting point gues #157. I'm not interested in
stories that have identity death or the guy suddenly immediately
loving that he's a girl. I'm also curious if the movie will address
what happens to Sam. In Cleo/Leo Leo actually gets to come back to
set his affairs in order. Will they have a scene where Sam gets his
period and the realization that he could become pregnant kicks in?
There are, generally, two types of character arcs. 1 is where the
character doesn't change but instead the conflict forces him to
double down on his beliefs. Typically these are tragic stories. 2
is where the character changes over time. They overcome challenges,
have realizations and become better people.
Sam is a romantic/comedy. There's lots of ways it could go. Maybe
it'll be really bitter/sweet like Chasing Amy where Samantha
changes back into Sam, lets Doc get together with Cynthia and walks
off alone, a better man who's ready to love but still, in the
moment, alone.
We'll just have to wait and see.
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From: guest (Ogsdorf)
, 124 months, post #159 |
That's an interesting idea, though it apparently will not happen in
this movie. I mean, a plot where a person admits he's changed into
a totally different person. If not believed, he'd be treated like a
nut. If believed by people who are not sworn to secrecy, he'd
become a freak celebrity harassed by camping-out reporters. That
would make it a very different sort of plot.
However, if it were a world where these transformations sometimes
happen, then friends could believe Sam and the reporters would not
make such a big deal about it. The downside is that such a world
would be rather different from ours and its issues would be
distracting from the character's plight. He'd just be one of many.
There might even be TG Anonymous groups that help people cope.
Again, that probably wouldn't be the story the production company
wants to tell.
The plot, btw, sounds a bit like Lalola, which of course seemed a
lot like Switch. I hope that there has been enough seepage from the
foreign versions of LLL to inspire more such plots in English. They
already have Switch, but Switch-was a mean-spirited movie, while
LLL, warmer and more sympathetic in its view of the character and
life in general, was better watching.
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From: guest (thesaint)
, 124 months, post #160 |
Samantha and Stephen (Tom Pelphrey) the guy that calls her a bitch.
She is so adorable. Love the earrings. I'm wondering: is this is a
business event or a wedding reception?
http://instagram.com/p/jP99gQEO6S/
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