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IF you became a woman...
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From: guest , 138 months, post #41

I would make sure the sad lonely man was straight before giving him a peak of my panties or boyshorts. I would hold doors for both males and females but I would expect some men to hold them for me if I was in a female body.

From: guest (Jayzie) , 138 months, post #42

I don't treat both sexes the same, but that's just a personal thing. I think this "rivalry" between the sexes is ridiculous, as we were meant to be different. However, I do believe that we are all equal, for there is no "superior" sex, and thus we deserve equal rights.

If I was a woman, I'd definitely use my sex to my advantage. It'd be nice to be on the other side for once, taking advantage rather than being used as a "nice guy" type that girls use and toss aside. But I wouldn't treat my "douchy" lovers any better, I'd break them after a couple of dates as retribution for them always getting the girls I wanted. It'd be awesome.

From: guest , 138 months, post #43

Actually many psychological studies would suggest that the sexes aren't that different and therefore are "meant" to be different. Gender stereotypes often wrongly influence our thinking into how women and men ought to be when these stereotypes are not based in nature but are culturally manufactured. The only real differences are the obvious ones in physical anatomy and some differences in what subjects each sex excels at. girls outperform boys in some subjects and vice versa. But other than that there is no evidence that men and women ought to be that different or treated differently unless you consider culture and stereotypes as evidence which isn't really wise to base reasoning off of other than to understand why humans placed such stereotypes in the first place.

From: guest , 138 months, post #44

AREN'T meant to be different* forgive my typo

From: guest (lily) , 138 months, post #45

If I was a woman, I'd definitely use my sex to my advantage. It'd be nice to be on the other side for once, taking advantage rather than being used as a "nice guy" type that girls use and toss aside. But I wouldn't treat my "douchy" lovers any better, I'd break them after a couple of dates as retribution for them always getting the girls I wanted. It'd be awesome.

The "other side" has its perqs ro be sure (some of us have spent considerable time, effort, and money to get there/here) but there are trade-offs.

Misogyny is a real thing in western cultures and it is more pervasive and entrenched than it is possible for you to see while you live as a man.

Look at this video by Bethany Black. She sums it up very nicely at about 1:15

There is a related, but distinct phenomena called femmephobia -- which categorizes everything feminine/female as inferior to anything masculine/male.

Natalie Reed has a typically rambling and discursive post about this here

Since there is nothing so female as a female person, this attitude -- which is woven through every aspect of the culture -- makes life more difficult than it needs to be at work, when dealing with service providers/government officials, etc.

If you are a man, you don't see it. When it is pointed out to you it looks like isolated incidents perpetrated by few extraordinary douchebags. Which, or course, is part of the phenomenon. Women who complain about this kind of subtle or overt denigration can be ignored as hysterical/oversensitive/bitchy/hormonal etc because they are, after all, women.

If you are a woman, you deal. If you are ambitious, you take the "bitch" label as part of the price of doing business. You learn to ignore or forgive the slimy behavior of even the most civilized men with whom you work; the propositions and sexual "jokes".

Sex with men, as a woman, is very tricky. The person you invite to your bed is often physically stronger than you and is a human being; which means he probably lied about himself to get you to lay down. The "douchy" men you plan to cast aside can turn into rapists, stalkers or murderers if they feel like you have taken away the pussy that belongs to them.

Even the "nice guy types" get sullen and resentful when you fail to deliver what they think they were promised when you smiled at them, or what they think they are owed for doing you some favor. It can get really scary, when one of these "nice guy types" starts sending you texts and emails (or shows up on your doorstep!) to plead his case and "just make you understand" how you hurt him.

Women aren't a lot better. Lesbian break-ups are terrifying. But if it comes to physical violence, it is more likely to be a fair fight.

These are the trade-offs for good things which are numerous and wonderful about being a woman, but they are things that shouldn't have to be traded away (or denied to those born female) just to be a woman.

From: guest , 138 months, post #46

"The person you invite to your bed is often physically stronger than you and is a human being; which means he probably lied about himself to get you to lay down. "

I'm a man and I love having a man in bed who is stronger than me and who can take control. I find that very hot. I would never want to be a woman though, I'm quite happy being a gay man and I wouldn't have it otherwise.

Do heterosexual women also like it when a man is quite a bit stronger than them?

From: guest , 138 months, post #47

"Even the "nice guy types" get sullen and resentful when you fail to deliver what they think they were promised when you smiled at them, or what they think they are owed for doing you some favor. It can get really scary, when one of these "nice guy types" starts sending you texts and emails (or shows up on your doorstep!) to plead his case and "just make you understand" how you hurt him."

This is a two way street. I know quite a number of girls who get resentful if turned down. I knew one guy who really wanted nothing to do with this one woman, and she became really resentful about it and making dramatic scenes about it. This guy was straight, but I as an openly gay man have also experienced it with some women. I've had women who just won't pull back even though they know I'm gay and I have no interest in them, its gotten really quite annoying at times. Not all women act like that, though, just as all men don't act like that, but I'm just saying it definitely is and can be a two way street. We're all human beings here.

From: guest (Guest) , 138 months, post #48

Though I'm a hetero male, I think I'd definitely try it with a man, *if* I became a very sexy/beautiful woman, at the genetic level. One thing that I think would push me in that direction, besides any possible brain chemistry changes that might influence me, is that I've also always had something of a shrinking fetish. Nothing extreme, in this scenario, but if I was already turned-on by an idealized gender transformation (and I would be!), it'd be amplified for me if I also found myself reduced to, say, a slighter, 5' 4" frame, albeit with generously sexy curves.

Suddenly finding that the new 'opposite sex' would be typically bigger and physically stronger than my new form, and the majority were strongly attracted to me, I think I could be convinced, fairly easily, to give my new body a test drive, though he'd definitely have to wear protection. I sure wouldn't want to risk getting pregnant, or catching a STD.

Not that I think that any typical hetero male would automatically become hetero female in their desires (I'd imagine many would be lesbian or bi) after such a transfomation, but I could see myself going that way, given the above criteria. Not just because of how I might see men then, but also how I'd see myself in relation to them.

Now, if it were a situation where I was involved in some magical, mutually-approved, genetic-level gender-swap with a girl I knew fairly well, and we each became stunning examples of the opposite sex, I think we'd probably go at it like rabbits in no time flat! lol

From: guest (lily) , 138 months, post #49

This is a two way street. I know quite a number of girls who get resentful if turned down. I knew one guy who really wanted nothing to do with this one woman, and she became really resentful about it and making dramatic scenes about it.

If I may be forgiven for mixing your metaphor a bit, the street doesn't see the same amount of traffic in both directions, nor are traffic laws enforced equally and impartially for drivers in the two opposing lanes... arrgh. That's terrible.

Yes, women can and do stalk, just as women can sexually harass and can rape.

Women are also more often the victims of stalking, harassment, and rape (from both men and women) than are men.

And women are more likely to be physically threatened harmed by men that the other way around.

Its not that the other way around doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen nearly as often,

There's a web of expectations and sexual mores that make it "kind of okay" for a man to be aggressive in pursuit of a woman. A woman is "crazy bitch who won't let it go." when she sends a text to the man who spurned her. A man who stalks a a female coworker is (too often) dismissed as "just trying to get over" with some girl who "won't put out."

In any event, I was responding to Jayzie's fantasy of consequence and risk-free sexual omnipotence, in which she would be nicer to the nice guys than women have been to him , and in which she would use her sexual wiles to teach a lesson to the jerks dated by the women who won't date nice guys like him ...

It is a completely understandable kind of wish-fulfilmnet fantasy in a place like this, and I wasn't offering a correction or a rebuke.

It is not, however, a workable plan of action unless he plans to become a man again and make his female alter-ego disappear.

From: guest , 138 months, post #50

Well, actually there are different injustices men and women often face because of society's expectations. Men who are raped often have more trouble reporting it than women, because their masculinity is brought into question. And are often asked, well didn't you enjoy it? Especially if he was raped by a woman. It is as though a man is expected to enjoy any sexual encounter with a woman regardless of whether or not he consented to it, and if a man is turned on during the scenario then it is even more difficult for him. So yea females do experience many an unjustice, but males often do as well, but in different contexts and circumstances.

From: guest (lily) , 138 months, post #51

Do heterosexual women also like it when a man is quite a bit stronger than them?

Yes, of course. That is the standard. Straight women go for big strong manly men with hard muscles and ruggedly handsome faces. Except when they don't.

While I am not exactly "hetero", and I am quite tall (so it doesn't happen often), I do like it that my partner is larger/stronger than I am and I have (occasionally) gone for a "hunk".

When I lived as a man I sought out partners who were small and curvy. Now my "type" in both men and women is boyish or maybe coltish. My partner (to whom I am committed by civil union and whom I will marry just as soon as the my home state makes it legal) was a champion pole-vaulter. There is no question that I am physically weaker, and could not hope to prevail in a physical confrontation. And I thought about that a lot when we first got together.

As a transwoman, being with a lager/stronger partner was not something I'd been socialized to expect or to desire. So, for me, it was an issue loaded with all kinds of baggage -- not just the worries about my physical safety. (plus there is the fact of my transness, which added a whole other layer of risk to my sex life). I don't know if cisgendered women have the same level of anxiety, but I know that it is something that cis-women in my age cohort talk about and worry about considering whether to "hook up" (as we used to say ^-^) with a man.

From: guest , 138 months, post #52

I think society is becoming better as time progresses and as males are more apt to embrace their feminine side. I think this has greatly helped in the equal treatment of women, as well as the obvious fight and struggle woman have undergone demanding equal rights and treatment. But I, personally, believe that the dawn of the metrosexual and in an age where men are more likely to embrace their feminine side has helped in equal treatment. Are things equal now? absolutely not. but I personally think that the embrace of the feminine by the masculine will help in this debacle.

From: guest , 138 months, post #53

"When I lived as a man I sought out partners who were small and curvy. Now my "type" in both men and women is boyish or maybe coltish. My partner (to whom I am committed by civil union and whom I will marry just as soon as the my home state makes it legal) was a champion pole-vaulter. There is no question that I am physically weaker, and could not hope to prevail in a physical confrontation. And I thought about that a lot when we first got together."

If you do not mind my asking, have you undergone transitional surgery and is your partner a man or a woman? Did you meet him or her before or after your transition, if you have had said transition?

From: guest (lily) , 138 months, post #54

If you do not mind my asking, have you undergone transitional surgery and is your partner a man or a woman? Did you meet him or her before or after your transition, if you have had said transition?

I don't mind you asking, but I was being deliberately vague about my partner's gender.

As for me, I have undergone "gender confirming surgery" (which is what the fashionable trans-people call SRS, and which I think is what you were asking).

Which probably answers the question of my partner's legal gender status -- since I divulged that we are in a civil partnership.

Whether that legal status matches my partner's gender identity, I will not say.

We knew each other before my surgery. We met after I was "full-time", but we did not become romantically involved until after my surgery. Actually, we got together after several subsequent surgeries, the very visible effects of which outed me as trans to almost everyone who knew me (and who gave it any though at all). Which might be the answer to another question; Yes, my partner knew about my transsexual history before we got together.

And no, this was not the case with many of my partners -- even when I was "pre-op" (I really hate that term).

From: guest (lily) , 138 months, post #55

Men who are raped often have more trouble reporting it than women, because their masculinity is brought into question. And are often asked, well didn't you enjoy it? Especially if he was raped by a woman. It is as though a man is expected to enjoy any sexual encounter with a woman regardless of whether or not he consented to it, and if a man is turned on during the scenario then it is even more difficult for him. So yea females do experience many an unjustice, but males often do as well, but in different contexts and circumstances.

Again, its about frequency, magnitude, and cultural expectations.

I do not think you are claiming that the number of unreported female-on-male sexual assaults approaches the number of reported male-on-female assaults -- but you are still asserting a false equivalency.

Women fail to report rapes too. Statistics on things that don't get reported are hard to collect or verify, but studies like this suggest that a lot more women don't report being sexually assaulted by men than there are men being sexually assaulted by women at all.

Women fail to report because they are ashamed, or because they have internalized the deeply ingrained and repeatedly enforced idea that rape is somehow the woman's fault (this guy got 39% of the vote for a US Senate seat despite hie state belief that women cannot get pregnant from rape unless they were secretly asking for it.).

And when women do report rape, the rate of investigation (never mind the rates of arrest or conviction) are appallingly low .

There are all kinds issues here, slut-shaming and misogyny and male-priveledge; but the short version is that women are at greater risk for sexual violence, and suffer its consequences, to a much greater extent than do men.

From: guest , 138 months, post #56

I meant how rape and sexual abuse are treated when it is male on female versus female on male. Think for example the case of Mary Kay Letourneau, the adult female teacher, who sexually abused her male student. She had to reoffend on several occasions before being seriously tried and even then society laughed it off as if that male should consider himself lucky.

In cases where an adult male molests a girl or boy for that matter society gets out their pitch forks and torches.

Also take note of the movie "That's My boy" starring Adam Sadnler, where Female on Male abuse is made light of and made fun of, if an equivalent movie had been made of an adult male taking advantage of a female had been made in the same comedic light rest assured there would be protests galore. I am not commenting on frequency here, I'm commenting on how both sexes receive injustices but in different manners and in different contexts.

I'm merely remarking that a male complainant against a female is taken less seriously and often laughed at. You only need take a look at the sociological evidence and look at news clips of such cases to see this exemplified.

I'm not undermining the issues women face and struggle with, nor am I commenting on frequency, I'm merely commenting on how society regards sex crimes committed against a male by a female. I'm saying society is judging both sexes by different standards, and unrightly so, and thus causing different injustices to both sex, never-mind frequency.

From: guest , 138 months, post #57

The people who I have the most sympathy for in our society are women, non-whites of both sexes, and homosexual individuals.

White male heterosexual privilege still greatly rings true to this day. The WASPS although draining in numbers still have their mindset hold society in their yokes.

From: guest , 138 months, post #58

And simply because it does not happen as frequently does not mean it should be taken any less seriously.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - Martin Luther King Jr.

also as far as sexual assaults commited on males I think we'd also have to take into account prison studies as well as cases of molestation.

Regardless though of frequency all cases of such abhorrent crimes should be taken equally seriously and vilified.

From: guest (lily) , 138 months, post #59

Think for example the case of Mary Kay Letourneau, the adult female teacher, who sexually abused her male student. She had to reoffend on several occasions before being seriously tried and even then society laughed it off as if that male should consider himself lucky.

In cases where an adult male molests a girl or boy for that matter society gets out their pitch forks and torches.

Okay, child molestation is a whole other off-topic thing from the off-topic misogyny and rape-culture and femmophobia stuff I inserted into this discussion.

Mary Kay Letourneau was a disturbed woman, herself a victim of domestic violence, and an ephebophile who "reoffended" by continuing to have sexual relations with the same teenaged boy by whom she had two children and eventually married.

That said, she certainly abused her position and took advantage of a minor. Her crime was statutory rape because Vili Fualaau was younger than 16 (13 years old at the time of the first incident) and because she was his teacher.

And, if we were discussing this, I would see your Mary Kay Fualaau and raise you every serial-molester Priest and Scout Master University Football Coach who's abuses of children, both make and female, were countenanced and covered up by the men for whom they worked.

I would assert that the reason we know the name Mary Kay Letourneau has less to do with the rarity of a woman sex-offender than it does with the way the sexuality of women is surveilled and constrained. A male teacher who lusts after 13 year old girls is a creep, but as long as he doesn't touch anybody he can get along quite well making any kind of lewd comments to his colleagues. A female teacher who lusts after 13 year old boys is a monster the moment she admits to having such thoughts.

Pitchforks indeed.

Also take note of the movie "That's My boy" starring Adam Sadnler, where Female on Male abuse is made light of and made fun of, if an equivalent movie had been made of an adult male taking advantage of a female had been made in the same comedic light rest assured there would be protests galore.

Yes. Nobody thinks rape jokes are funny. Except the people who make them. And the people who laugh at them.

Here , and also here

I am not commenting on frequency here, I'm commenting on how both sexes receive injustices but in different manners and in different contexts.

Yes. And your point is conceded. Men (adult human males) do get raped. Men get sexually harassed. Mostly it is by other men, but sometimes they are victimized by women.

But it IS NOT THE SAME THING as the institutionalized and accepted denigration and devaluation of women that leads to crap like this.

25% of College Women in the US report surviving a rape attempt (successful or otherwise) since the age of 14. That is compared to 3% of college aged men who report surviving a rape attempt as a chile or an adult and 4% or college men who answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?".

Here is the CDC site from which these statistics were pulled

It is not that sexual violence against men is any less serious, any less horrible, than sexual violence against women. It is that culture permits, even encourages, sexual violence -- by which I include harassment and stalking -- against women in a way that it does not permit these things towards men.

Just to try to bring this back on-topic: A man (an adult make human being) who transitions to become a woman faces a very different world than the one she knew when she lived as a man. She has to deal with a very different power dynamic (to use the standard phrasing of a Minority Studies professor) as a sexual being.

If our transformed woman is to be a lesbian, she will have to deal with men who think its their prerogative to "rape her straight."

If she decides to be heterosexual, or bisexual, then she will be held to a complicated and inconsistent code of sexual conduct where she is a tease if she doesn't put out, and a slut if she does (and a bitch if she complains about the unfairness of this).

Seriously, as I said up-thread, it really isn't something you can see if you are living as a man. You have to be a woman, all day, every day, for it to sink in that this is really the way people think about women.

From: guest , 138 months, post #60

"If she decides to be heterosexual, or bisexual, then she will be held to a complicated and inconsistent code of sexual conduct where she is a tease if she doesn't put out, and a slut if she does (and a bitch if she complains about the unfairness of this).'"

Last I checked one does not decide their sexual orientation, might want to read up on your scientific facts and studies there.

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