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From: guest (Christopher Leeson)
, 149 months, post #41 |
This thread as a lot of gist for the mill. I hope that the news
about the quality of Sam is on the mark. (It could serve as the
basis of a TV series, now that Fox did its trashy pilot ostensibly
based on Lalola and didn't sell it). But will Sam be a good film?
People had high hopes for Elle E Ella, too, but that fell victim to
the problems Rush and others have remarked on. When Juliet rejected
the life of a woman, when she stubbornly remained blind to what a
new perspective on life could teach her, her anger and self-pity
couldn't carry the story anywhere. The writers had boxed themselves
in and had no place to go, except to change him back and end the
series.
I would not say that Lola of Chile is a confutation of the rule of
rejection vs happy endings. That Lalo also rejected any compromise
with his new life, disdained the life that half of the population
on Earth live, then pulled a rabbit out of the hat by changing him
back and giving him a match with Grace (as I think she was called).
They could have done the same thing with Juliet, but such a facile
move would not have fixed what was wrong with EEE.
Even though I have used the theme of a tg character romancing his
best friend, most extensively in BIG SWITCH, it is actually
unlikely psychologically. Good friends may have too much history
together and that would get into the way of relating to one another
in a new way. It is more likely that people in their shoes would be
more open with a new person. Both Lola (in Arg and elsewhere) and
Cleo fell for guys with whom they had tension with before, mostly
because each had a more gentlemanly attitude than Lalo or Leo had.
Their real friends, such as Lola's Gaston, were bad guys, which the
ladies were able to realize when they were able to see them from
their new perspective. But when Lola and Cleo interacted with Facu
and Steve (I think) they found that they liked being treated well.
I also see no argument for saying that the self-identity of the
soul would preclude sexual adjustment, especially where magic is
involved. Those who look at reincarnation usually observe that the
same souls are routinely born into either sex and usually do well
as either.
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From: guest (guest2)
, 149 months, post #42 |
Great points Christopher . . . and now I'm curious to read Big
Switch.
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From: guest
, 149 months, post #43 |
Is it realistic for a man to fall for men if he was placed in the
body of a woman? Would he automatically stick to dresses, skirts,
and heels if he was in a woman's body? I think these questions are
kinda hard to answer because we don't really know for sure. We
don't know if a man would want to be penetrated by a man if he was
in a woman's body.
I think it would be interesting if this Sam movie was like Lalola
where the male character did get placed in a woman's body and the
person that had his female body now has his female body.
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From: guest (guest2)
, 149 months, post #44 |
Why does it have to be "automatically"? How about slow acclimation
and adaptation for the purposes of a romantic comedy. We'll never
know for sure but that's what makes it fun (or frustrating if you
prefer EEE, I Hate My Body, or Lola).
Personally, I've seen enough bodyswaps. I think it'd be refreshing
to see a straight up transformation.
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From: guest (guest)
, 149 months, post #45 |
I totally agree with guest2's comments about a slow acclimation,
and with Christopher's point about reincarnation: Many people who
believe they were once a different sex have happily acclimated to
life in their present sex. For example, the country singer Reba
McEntire firmly believes she was a successful and happy man in a
previous life, and yet now she is very happy to be female.
But I hope that those of us who are fans of metamorphose.org, have
a "big tent" attitude about our preferences. Some of us may enjoy
the "I hate my body" approach of some tg fiction, and others of us
may prefer "gradual acceptance" and "happy ending" tg fiction. But
I think we can all agree to amicably disagree.
Regarding the Sam movie, I think the project was cancelled. After a
fairly thorough search last weekend for new information, I came up
completely empty. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong and will be
enjoying Sam in the local movie theater soon, but I doubt it.
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From: guest (guest2)
, 149 months, post #46 |
Hey guest, go back through this very thread. They just had a
rehearsal last November.
http://ryanocallaghan.blogspot.com/2011/11/sam.html
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From: guest (Christopher Leeson)
, 149 months, post #47 |
I would agree, guest 2, about being unenthusiastic about bodyswaps.
When one has bodyswaps, he is pretty much forced to deal with two
characters, when the experiences of either one of them is plenty to
handle in a novel (or even a 200 episode tv series, as some of the
Lalolas achieved.) And as I prefer guy-into-girl stories, any time
spent on a girl-into-guy is a pretty oh-hum prospect for me. That's
one reason I prefer the Goodbye Charlie plot over the Turnabout
plot, and don't care at all for the Hot Chick plot. (Actually, in
H.C. what the guy was doing off screen in the chick's body sounded
a whole lot more interesting than anything the lead character did
in his.)
In a sense, Lalola, in most versions, is also a body swap, since
there was a kind of switch, but it was a transfer of physical
appearance (and emotional potential, apparently), not souls. Lalola
avoided the problems of developing two characters at once by not
having the girl with Lalo's shape show up until very late. (But the
Spanish Lalola actually had a good deal of the other Lalo in its
last third, and Russia's Margosha had a full 3rd season of romance
with the "other" Gosha. BTW, I could understand how Margot could do
Gosha's job [it was her own, but I don't know how a woman changed
at random was able to go to Margot's office as Gosha and then put
out quality work as an executive there. I wish there were
subtitles.)
Guest 2, you ask about Big Switch. The story, with a lot of good
drawings by Gluebubble, is at
http://tgcomics.com/stories/storiesR/bigswitch/bigswitch.php
There is a newer edit of the story at FM, also with a lot of
pictures, but these are modified photographs, at
http://www.fictionmania.tv/stories/readhtmlstory.html?storyID=31971325212322617134
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From: guest (guest2)
, 149 months, post #48 |
Wow. Great artwork on the TGcomics link! Thanks for posting.
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From: guest (guest)
, 149 months, post #49 |
Thanks for the update, guest2, I somehow missed that note about the
rehearsal in the thread. That is great news. I hope the director
learns from the failures of past tg movies and makes something that
both intelligently approaches the tg topic and at the same time is
fun for everyone. The brief description of the movie at the top of
this thread gives me a lot of room for hope. First, it is an ALPHA
male who is transformed into a beautiful woman, and not a
jerk/creep male (a la Goodbye Charlie, Switch, Prelude to a Kiss,
etc.) . Also, for those of us who prefer a grudging and initially
indignant adjustment to being female, using an alpha male creates
plenty of opportunity for that. And the stated love story aspect
seems certain to create the successful gradual adjustment to being
female that many of us prefer. It also seems to point to the
character remaining female at the end (unlike Its a Boy Girl Thing,
Goodbye Charlie, and most other tg films).
If the Sam producers can only learn from the failure of Switch (and
others), and create an intelligent and fun movie, Sam could become
the first hit tg film: a movie that is enjoyed by the huge "date
movie" crowd as well as the tg audience. Very good news indeed.
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From: guest
, 149 months, post #50 |
Can someone explain to me how it wasn't incest or fake incest in
Margosha? Did Margot and Gosha marry at the end? Wasn't the story
at first that they were related as a part of the cover story?
Didn't the Chile Lola also do this like how could the Lola guy
marry his male body when he told everyone that they were related?
And what about in Louislouise? I've always wondered about that. And
another thing how could the female body character fall in love with
the woman that is in his male body? Sorry for the tangent this
stuff has always puzzled me.
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From: guest (Christopher Leeson)
, 149 months, post #51 |
I can answer some of your questions, but not all, since I don't
understand Russian. Was Margot's gambit fake incest? It is
something I have wondered about, too. BTW, I think the marriage was
a wrong turn for the series (since Andre seemed to be the better
man. He put up with a lot of nonsense from Margot and a lot of
false pledges, only to be dumped in 3rd season). As for the
marriage, the usual cover story in a LLL version is that Lola is
Lalo's cousin. It depends on the laws of the land whether that is
incest. I don't know how they did it in Margosha, but there could
be acceptable ways, if first-cousin marriage in Russia is
prohibited. They might have claimed that they were cousins only
through marriage (i.e. that an uncle had stepchildren) or through
adoption. They might have "clarified" that they were only second
cousins, or something like that.
I only know a little about Lola of Chile, but if he marries Grace,
as I've heard, there is no incest. Grace was not his alter ego, but
his long-term gal pal (who in most versions secretly loved him and
lost him through sex-change, but remains Lola's gal Friday who
helps her through many a tough spot. In some versions, Grace and
Lola's rich boss fall in love.)
I seriously doubt there is incest in LouisLouise, though I don't
speak Dutch either and so far I only watched a few shows (I want to
watch them all; it is one of the best). Her boyfriend's name I
recall is Thomas and he seems to be a close equivalent of Facundo.
There actually is a girl in Louis' shape that shows up (poor girl;
Louis was overweight), but they do not marry. By the way, Louise
seems to be one of the only two "Lolas" who definitely become
mothers. The other is the one played by the lovely Rhian Ramos in
the Philippines show. Viki.com used to have a lot of subtitled
shows, and though Rhian's character is more feminine than most
Lola's, that's part of the plot and her story touches the heart.
To my knowledge, only Margosha fell in love with her alter-ego. And
I think it was a mistake, one that was fortunately not repeated in
the other shows that I'm familiar with. I wish that they had had
had a 4th season to straighten out the wrong turns of the 3rd
season.
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From: guest (guest2)
, 149 months, post #52 |
I pretty sure the Greek Lola becomes a mother.
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From: guest (guest2)
, 149 months, post #53 |
A little off topic but one of the biggest reasons I love the
LouisLouise is the meticulous attention to detail. They really
explored the slow and subtle acclimation Louise makes more than any
of the other Lalola series. The slow change of physicality and her
mannerisms throughout the entire run is really impressive from an
acting standpoint. And all the little details like letting her hair
grow out in real time shows a lot of commitment from the
showrunners to depict the ongoing transformation. I love that! Wish
I understood Dutch.
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From: guest
, 149 months, post #54 |
I would also add that the Louislouise woman had the best figure out
of all the Lalolas. She had a nice rack and breathtaking hiney.
I just hope this Sam movie gets made and is available for people to
see.
But with the whole man getting turned into a woman plot, it can be
good but it can also be bad. Sometimes, it makes sense for the man
to want to stay in female form. Boy Meets Girl is a prime example
of that. However, I think most men would be logical and would want
to go back to their male bodies unless their lives when they were
men sucked. I mean if you get turned into a successful sexy chick
and were an unattractive losers as a guy, what would you pick?
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From: guest (Christopher Leeson)
, 149 months, post #55 |
It does seem that the Greek Lola went to her wedding with a baby
bump, but this scene follows very closely after the eclipse scene
(in which Lola willingly becomes female permanently.) Unless she
was already knocked up and the dialog (it's all Greek to me, as the
Bard said) revealed it before that point, there would have been no
foreshadowing for her motherhood prior to the wedding scene. A
bulging tummy briefly seen, if that was all there was, would have
been an unnecessarily subtle indication, especially since seeing a
baby in Lola's arms would have pleased the majority of her fans.
I wish I knew Dutch, too, Guest 2. But with 4 LLL versions in
Spanish, all of them well done, that's the language that will give
a person the most bang for his buck (study).
Post #54, I don't know what you mean about Boy Meets Girl. Anyway I
look at that mini-series, the "boy" (a loser-type who looks about
30) doesn't want to stay a "girl." (Some girl; she looks 40ish).
Both of them hate their exchange and the whole show is about their
sour complaining. They are willing to risk their lives to change
back. This cliche, extreme risk-taking to reverse a body-switch, is
delightfully parodied in "Just Follow Law," one of the few
stand-alone tg movies with a satisfying ending. Cleo-Leo is
another.
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From: guest
, 149 months, post #56 |
I disagree with that about Boy Meets Girl. I know there was a lot
of complaining. However, Danny eventually wanted to stay in
Veronica's body because her life was better than his and he could
be with Fiona.
I think Boy Meets World was realistic. Most people would complain
and probably be sad about it. When you go from being in a body that
has a penis to a body that has breasts and a vagina, you're
probably not going to be a happy camper.
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From: guest (just a man)
, 149 months, post #57 |
I am about as heterosexual male as one can be. My mind works that
way, can really only think with one side of it, only attracted to
women, never had a thought about beng with man, 6', 220# and it is
not fat, blah, blah, etc., etc. (no attacks on what I wrote, just
trying to make a quick picture)
But I have always had a feeling that my "soul" for lack of a better
word is female.
So who knows, maybe if I awoke to find I was now actually female,
as if born that way, that over time once the hormones worked on me,
the female body, etc. That in time my "soul" would be in agreement
with the female body I know had and that I would start to think and
act like a natural born female, even to the point of being
attracted to what I am now not, which is a man?
How many men and women could there be out there like me with their
"souls"? How many are not even aware of it?
I believe if all the males and females in the world actually
switched genders, we would be surprised at how many in time would
adapt to their new gender role, even to the point of it being a
"traditional/social heterosexual gender role".
Writing is not a strong suit with so trust this makes some sense.
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From: guest (Robbie)
, 149 months, post #58 |
Since this thread has taken a Lola turn, does anyone else notice
it's nearly impossible to find the first 215 episodes of the
Chilean series? Any ideas where to find them? Thanks in advance.
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From: guest
, 149 months, post #59 |
So you guys are gonna tell me that you wouldn't be angry and/or sad
if the Lalola curse happened to you? I know that most people on
here have a fantasy about being in a woman's body but would you
really want it to be permanent? You wouldn't miss your original
body and original gender? And please don't give me this whole
gender doesn't matter. It does matter. It's a part of everyone's
individuality.
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From: Greg
, 149 months, post #60 |
I certainly wouldn't like it. I like transformations of all kind,
but one this is all fiction, and two finding yourself transforned
with absolutely no info as to how, why, and for how long would be
pretty horrific.
I kinda like who I am. I'm not in the best of shape, but that's
still me.
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